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Saturday, May 31, 2008

You Take Off Your Blouse First, Haris

I read the Haris Ibrahim article entitled "Take That Blouse Off! It's Making Me Hot" with a very sad heart. I never knew that an honest effort made by Munirah Bahari is being refuted so violently simple because Munirah’s suggestion contradicts Haris Ibrahim’s secular liberal ideology.
Haris too fail to suggest anything practical to our real problem of teenage sex, rape, incest and murder. Instead, Haris chose to advance his ideological ranting, of which Munirah’s suggestion is completely contradictory to.
For one, it’s expected that Haris Ibrahim, as a man, would disagree with Munirah. Seeing that Munirah is a woman, all of us should agree that she has more credibility to talk about women’s safety then Haris.
After all, when was the last time we see all-covered women being used by corporations to advertised their products? There must be a reason that women wearing revealing clothes are the more preferred choice to advertisers as compared to “burqa” wearing women? Only an obtuse and highly na├»ve individual would disagree that “exposed” women attracts attention at the same level as the non-exposed ones.
As for Munirah Ibrahim’s suggestion, I think it has merits and I would want my sisters, cousins, daughters etc not to wear clothes that is transparent and can be seen through. At least, Munirah is doing something in curbing teenage sex that is ever rising even as we speak.
Munirah also does not imply or say that this is the only solution available. She is merely suggesting one solution to the current problems of youths.
Next, Harris Ibrahim re-lived the tragic incidence of the rape and murder of Suzaili Ibrahim. He quoted a Malaysiakini report from 2000 and quoted Sisters In Islam as saying that Suzaili rape and murder "Noor Suzaily's rape also belie the claim made by some political leaders that women are raped and molested because of the way they dress”.
Funny, Haris fail to quote other rape and/or murder cases involving “non-tudung” wearing victims, i.e. Norita Samsuddin, Canny Ong (whom were non tudung wearing victims albeit their cases being highly publicized)etc. Why didn’t he quote other cases of rape where the victims does not wear tudung?
My deepest sympathy to Canny Ong and his family

Apparently, Sisters In Islam and Haris are probably unaware of the concept of anomaly in statistics. By just providing one sample is not a strong enough to draw a encompassing conclusion.
The truth of the matter is the Suzaili may have been an anomaly. That is an exception to the rule, a deviation from the common rule. And quoting the Suzaili case alone is insufficient from a statistical standpoint to prove his conclusion that clothes is not a factor.
This is the mistake committed by Haris, Sisters in Islam and even by AWAM’s “The Rape Report:An Overview of Rape in Malaysia”. Instead of providing unblemished data, they only quote one or two cases and then they drew their conclusion. This is very misleading and might result in the masses making the wrong conclusion, thus, exposing themselves to harm and danger.
Harris also asks:
“Do most reported cases of incest involve Malay-Muslims?
Do most reported cases of grandfathers, fathers and brothers raping grand-daughters, daughters or sisters involve Malay-Muslim males?
If so, why is that there are not many reports of girls who grow up in villages playing hopscotch in shorts and singlets being raped by their grandfathers, fathers, or brothers”
I believe Haris’es questions is inspired by the AWAM’s report too.
My reply is that factors behind incests and family-rapes in Malaysia hasn’t been identified yet. There has been no detail study yet. But, my own observation is that it has a lot to do with our sex-friendly media where women with exposed bodies are a preferred feature in the programming. In addition, pornography is also widespread in Malaysia and access to pornography is also easy. For instance, our internet provider does not censor pornography sites and as a result, even children can access pornography sites in Malaysia, let alone adults.
With stimulants readily widespread, it’s no surprise that innocent children falls victims. Children, women who cover themselves, grandaugthers, sisters etc can then be categorized as victims of situations. Their rapists are stimulated by widespread stimulants available and they become victims because:
a. They are weak
b. They can easily be subdued.
c. They re convenient outlets for the rapists.
Suzaili Hamzah may have become a victim of a man whom was stimulated by other women who are scantily clad attired.This means that women who wears sexy attires not only endanger themselves. They also endanger other women and children.
The scantily clad women will stimulate males and the rapists among these males will find easy outlets i.e. their grandaugthers, daughters, sisters etc. In short, scantily clad women are also responsible for all the rape cases, as well.
A case reported at of two brothers raping their sisters after watching pornographic movies. I don’t know how credible this report is but apparently the blog host is willing to be responsible for his postings. But to me the story is not too far from the truth.
In conclusion, Munirah’s effort has to be lauded. At least someone is trying to do something to solve real problems in the society. People like Haris Ibrahim should avoid from being part of the problem, if he does not want to be part of the solution. The time to moan and groan is over. Teenage sex, incest, rape is a real problem in our society. We need solutions not ideological rants like what Haris is doing in his article.
As a final note, the message below is what u get is any of you wishes to access pornography sites from Saudi Arabia. We should implement something like this in Malaysia too.

Check out my latest report on Life in "Taleban Country pt 1" and "Life in Taleban Country pt 2"
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  1. Hi,

    1. I believe even a woman is all covered up, a man's imagination can do the rest and even more. Some say, sex/arousal is all in the mind anyway. You should know what I mean, you are a guy.
    2. Both men and women can be equally credible to talk about women rights/problems 'cos we possess the capacity to empathise. If only we listen, look and try to understand.
    3. Do a google search on "tudung girls sex". ;) Lots of nice hidden videos. On Facebook, lots of young tudung gals put their photos up on dating games like Friends for Sale and Owned.
    4. It's a stoopid idea to change the transparent school blouse because most wear a pinafore already. The transparent baju kurung may be an issue. I guess it's no harm to get more 'decent' clothes for our children.
    5. If a man's mind is clean, when he sees a naked lady, he may be physically aroused but he may not rape her.

  2. Too much ad hominem.

    Fact of the matter is, there are little empirical evidence to suggest any correlation to justify Munirah's claim. The phrasing of her claims further suggests that she thinks this is the main cause for all the problems.

    Cite statistical evidence and then we can talk. Otherwise it will be just a bunch of people thinking from their guts arguing.


  3. Much ado about nothing. Another day in Bolehland.

  4. Let's not also forget the inherent subjectivity of what constitutes attractiveness.

    Attractiveness is inherently subjective, and more importantly, relative.

    If every woman was to cover themselves up, wouldn't this just move the absolutes we have in judging the relative attractiveness of a woman? In short, it only changes the scales, and men can still formulate lustful thoughts based on this relative perception.

    The trouble, as it usually is, is people assuming their absolutes are always shared by others.


  5. Is it still not the rapists fault when rape occurs? i would like to know your rationalization to the argument that the way a woman dresses somehow absolves the male of a certain degree of fault.

  6. ... my own observation is that it has a lot to do with our sex-friendly media where women with exposed bodies are a preferred feature in the programming.

    Hello friend - don't you think you're being a tad naive here to get all defensive? Only women know what turns a man on? So women are more qualified to insult men by calling them perverts?
    Not enough statistics?
    You gotta be kidding - go to USM Kubang Kerian or access police reports and ask the relevant details. It would help you to open your eyes (or take of your blouse too!).
    You think those kampung pakciks commiting incest watch Astro or surf the www in those kampungs?

    Shame on you!

  7. Hello,

    It is a men world la. Men exploits women and yet they blamed the women. Let be honest la, human nature la that men love to watch pretty and sexy women. Yet men are not perverts ok!

    Only sick people commit sex crimes and DON'T blame others, BLAME ourselves ok!

    Of course men would love to blame the women for their own 'weakness' but OMG! some women still think their 'own kind' is to be blame! haha!

    So next time if i see a sexy lady and i molest her and i would tell the authority that is it not my fault but because she wear so 'sexy' what haha!

  8. Oh btw, about the news report that our tourism rep in Taiwan who groped a woman's back and private parts.

    Was the woman wearing anything sexy? Did our tourism rep told the Taiwanese authority that it is not his 'fault' but hers? Also it was reported he 'smelling alcohol' so maybe this time he blamed it on alcohol.

    I am not trying to be funny here, and the point is we prefer to blame others and anything but ourselves

  9. You sir, are a moron. Here is a link about your vaunted Arabian holier than thou lifestyles.

    Indeed, if you had read archived of yementimes, sauditimes, or whatever you will discover that even though the women are all covered up they were still raped. What's worse is that the victimized women are being blamed for it because they didn't cover their eyes or fingers! What tips the whole ordeal into stupidity is that the women are then killed because they have dishonored themselves!!!

    Instead of blaming the victim or the perpetrator, this Munirah should focus on finding out why it can happen in the first place. Why did the rapist lost control and act the way he did? What social/ physical/ psychological problems is the rapist being subjected to? Why is the rapist not learning discipline and not enforcing self control?

    Damn morons all of you; no wonder this world is becoming more screwed up day by day...

  10. >Instead of blaming the victim or the perpetrator, this Munirah should focus on finding out why it can happen in the first place. Why did the rapist lost control and act the way he did? What social/ physical/ psychological problems is the rapist being subjected to? Why is the rapist not learning discipline and not enforcing self control?

    If you are so smart, then give an answer! Human think they are so smart today that they are independent of God. God has regulated a complete system but sadly, human choose to practice what they like and leave what they dislike. That's why the system fails. It's like a Sony VAIO without the CPU. It just doesn't work! That's the root of problem today.Women wearing tudung, but still wearing tight dress,oversocializing with opposite sex,men watching pornography and not lowering their gaze,throwing stone punishment to adulterers not enforced..All these contribute to the problem..

  11. See!!! Another idiot human showing stupidity to the max!! Using my answer as a rhetorical tool and then parroting the same lame blame!!

    Why omit the previous paragraph about saudi arabian females dressed from head to toe, no part of their bodies showing being raped reported in yementimes / sauditimes? It has been demonstrated in the middle east newspaper that even if you cover everything up you will still get raped!! So best solution? Increase mental discipline and reduce the egotistical way of thinking!

    What an idiot!!!! Please don't have children and pollute the human race with your stupidity gene ok!

    Like what ck said, instead of blaming others, try to find out what causes the rapist to lose control turning them into sex starved demons. Then, eliminating that cause so that it will never happen again is the next course of action. What are the possible causes of them losing mental discipline? Maybe the idea if the go on holy suicide mission and die they will have hundreds of female sex slave in heaven to rape every hour, hmmm???

  12. kazimoto,

    the link u gave is non-existant

    So, where's the story? Does the story actually exist??

  13. Dear Tulang Besi,

    That 'no-existant or missing' website is not the issue la.

    With due respect, let be frank and honest with ourselves that a fully dressed or cover up woman can still subject to sexual crimes.

    I suggest our police or government conduct a study from compiled statistics from reported sex crimes to understand the real nature and or cause of these sex crimes.

    I heard Scot-land Yard and FBI do conduct a behavioural science study on these sex criminals. They have a profile of each type (of sex crime) to begin with.

    Let us not say these sex crimes only happened to certain people and group. Let us not just say only religious teaching can solve the problems. So let stop blaming anyone or anything and start identify the real issue to address this problem.

    Yes it is never easy to solve the problems but blaming women is not helping.

  14. CK said:

    "With due respect, let be frank and honest with ourselves that a fully dressed or cover up woman can still subject to sexual crimes."

    MY REPLY: It's like comparing robberies between locked housed and unlock houses.

    Since lock houses gets robbed too, does that mean we all should stop locking our houses?

    Here's looking at u kid

  15. Hi Tulang Besi,

    Good to compare sex crime with robbery which is also a serious crime. We in Malaysia also have cases of robbery cum rape crimes.

    Since locked houses also get robbed you mean to say that by having more 'locks and locked gates' in a house is safer?

    What is the root cause of these crimes? Having more locks doesn't deter the robbers likewise having more clothed doesn't deter the rapist.

    Thanks & Cheers

  16. ck,

    Please answer my question first. But to answer my question, people are adopting more measures i.e. alarms, security guards etc.

    I guess the same concept must be applied to women dresses too.

  17. tulang besi said:
    "But to answer my question, people are adopting more measures i.e. alarms, security guards etc.

    I guess the same concept must be applied to women dresses too."

    Alright, alright, tulang besi... what do you propose now? Every woman here should go out with a chaperone just like in Saudi Arabia?

    And since the same concept of how we protect our houses must be used, we must lock ourselves up to. Chastity belts anyone?

    I know this argument is between you and ck, but I just can't help it.

    If a woman/girl gets raped, it's not her fault! What is so difficult to understand?


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