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Saturday, June 21, 2008

Haris Ibrahim’s Barking Up the Wrong Tree pt 2

In conclusion, Haris sources are at best unreliable. Considering Haris is changing the meaning of the Quran, Haris will need to bring a source that is MORE THAN IRON CLAD.

Otherwise, it only proves that secular liberalists will do anything to support their ideology even up to the point of changing the meaning of the Quran, which Allah has condemned in 02:78-79


Upon further research, I have made more discoveries with regards to the content of Haris Ibrahim’s article “Judge ye the tree by its fruit.” I therefore felt compelled to share my discoveries with all the readers. Anyways, it is a very interesting discovery and I am sure you will appreciate it.

Haris entire article attempts to show that the verse 02:54 in the Quran does not say what it is. He claims that the part “..faqtulu anfusakum…” in 02:54 does not mean “..kill thyself..” but something else i.e. mortify your souls, kill your souls. Essentially, it means that Haris Ibrahim attempts to change the meaning of the Quran by quoting these sources.

Haris quoted from three sources: Yusuf Ali’s footnote, Maulana Muhammad Ali and Leopold Weiss (Muhammad Assad). I shall give brief description of my new discoveries on each of Haris’es sources.

1.0 Maulana Muhammad Ali (MMA): He is one of the leaders in the Ahmadiyya sect. And Ahmadiyya sect is a deviated sect in Islam as agreed upon by all scholars of Islam, then and now. Accepting Quran interpretations from the leader of a deviated sect is not very credible especially when it involves changing the meaning of the Quran.(Haris’s source can be viewed here under footnote #54a. It is an Ahmadiyya website).

2.0 Yusuf Ali : Haris quoted Yusuf Ali’s comment in his footnote. What Haris needs to ask is why has Yusuf Ali translated the part as “killing” if he thinks that the verse actually carries another meaning. Plus, Yusuf Ali offers no justification for what he termed as “spiritualized way of understanding verse 02:54” since there is no such thing as that at all. If we want to understand the Quran in a spiritualized way, why do we need translation at all?

2.1 Furthermore, other translators of the Quran, disagrees with Yusuf Ali and the list

includes Pickhall, Shakir, Rodwell, Palmer, Tafseer Ar Rahman and many more. Since,
Yusuf Ali is not infallible, it’s safer to stick to the majority.

3.0 Muhammad Asad: He based his argument that the ensuing verse 02:56-57 is in sequence and comes after 02:54. But, verse 04:153 proves Leopold Weiss otherwise. So, it is a mistake by Muhammad Asad in interpreting the Quran.

4.0 It seems that Haris based his argument on deviated, vague and mistaken sources. He needs to find a MUCH STRONGER source considering he is changing the meaning of the Quran.

5.0 I also questioned Haris, if one can change the meaning in 02:54, what’s to stop others from changing other verses as well, such as verses on Cane and Abel. Both 02:54 and verses on Cane and Abel uses the word “kill” or derivative of it. If one applies the Haris’s method in 02:54 to the Cane and Abel story, it would make Cane absolved from the crime of murder on his brother Abel. There was no murder taking place. Notice how the Quran will be completely incoherent if Haris’s methods is applied. There will be contradictions, confusion and not to mention divisions all over the Muslim world.

6.0 A much better explanation on 02:54 is offered by Tafseer Ibnu Katseer. I say it is much better because it doesn't involve changing the meaning of the Quran at all. To quote from Tafseer Ibnu Katsir:

"An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Ibn Abi Hatim recorded Ibn `Abbas saying, "Allah told the Children of Israel that their repentance would be to slay by the sword every person they meet, be he father or son. They should not care whom they kill. Those were guilty whom Musa and Harun were not aware of their guilt, they admitted their sin and did as they were ordered. So Allah forgave both the killer and the one killed.'' This is part of the Hadith about the trials that we will mention in Surat Ta Ha, (20) Allah willing.

Ibn Jarir narrated that Ibn `Abbas said, "Musa said to his people,
﴿فَتُوبُواْ إِلَى بَارِئِكُمْ فَاقْتُلُواْ أَنفُسَكُمْ ذَلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ عِندَ بَارِئِكُمْ فَتَابَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ﴾


("So turn in repentance to your Creator and kill each other (the innocent kill the wrongdoers among you), that will be better for you with your Creator.'' Then He accepted your repentance. Truly, He is the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.)
Allah ordered Musa to command his people to kill each other. He ordered those who worshipped the calf to sit down and those who did not worship the calf to stand holding knives in their hands. When they started killing them, a great darkness suddenly overcame them. After the darkness lifted, they had killed seventy thousand of them. Those who were killed among them were forgiven, and those who remained alive were also forgiven.''

In conclusion, Haris sources are at best unreliable. Considering Haris is changing the meaning of the Quran, Haris will need to bring a source that is MORE THAN IRON CLAD.

Otherwise, it only proves that secular liberalists will do anything to support their ideology even up to the point of changing the meaning of the Quran, which Allah has condemned in 02:78-79 as follows:

02: 78. There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!.

6 comments:

HumanBeing said...

I can understand clearly that Harris Ibrahim is interpretating 2:54 in human terms toward the progress of humanity, while you are clasping to 2:54 via inhuman instincts that is driven by internal psychological terror, i.e.(TMT).

I had given my comments in other threads in your blog and justified why 2:54 should be viewed either on time/cultural based or metaphorically, with heavy doses of empathy and in a humane manner.

2:54 was related to Moses, but it is noted that Christianity had overriden the OT with the more humane NT. As a sign of progress, all Christian sect had done away with death for apostasy. On the other hand, you are still stuck with such barbaric intent in our modern age.

You must search your conscience and ask how someone educated like you could advocate the killing of another human being for merely changing their mind on religious belief.

One question; if your whole family and relatives are Muslim and all (except you) opted for apostasy, would you recommend that they all be killed in accordance to your interpretation of 2:54?

Frankly if one were to keep inculcating such psychopathic thoughts in one's mind, it could effect one's mental stability in the long run.

Be more human and more humane for humanity sake.

HumanBeing said...

''In conclusion, Haris sources are at best unreliable. Considering Haris is changing the meaning of the Quran, Haris will need to bring a source that is MORE THAN IRON CLAD.

Otherwise, it only proves that secular liberalists will do anything to support their ideology even up to the point of changing the meaning of the Quran, which Allah has condemned in 02:78-79 as follows:
-------------

There are two valid approaches in interpretation 2:54, i.e.

1. Time/cultural based
2. Metaphorically

If (1), then the deterrent must change with time and age. Death for apostasy is inhuman and abhorminal for our current age.

Haris's is viewing 2:54 from the metaphorically perspective (i prefer this) which is more effective and truly representive of mechanism of the human spiritual process.

From the neuro-psychological POV, there is a actually a mental 'terrorist' i.e. TMT & CD in the human psyche that is driving them to resort to all sort of beliefs (good and bad) to soothe the associated psychological pains from the fear of internal terror.

Wise and holy of the old will usually advise a person to 'kill' that 'terrorist' in oneself to effect spiritual progress in oneself.

Science is already developing along the path that one day we will be able to track the neural wirings inside our brain of the human spiritual process. It is possible to track the spiritual progress and show neural pattern of how one (higher) kill oneself(lower) inside the brain using FMRI.

In the spiritual sense, "kill" would mean "contra off" by inhibiting and controlling the lower self, not physical destruction of the neurons.

The Bhagavad Gita used the "kill" metaphor to denote spiritual progress by killing one's lower self.

Even in the Bible, note,

,i/>SAB, 1 Corinthians 1515:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our LORD, I ,b/die daily,/b>.,/i>

Do you think St. Paul asked Christians to commit suicide daily?

Frankly, it is your under-developed spirituality that is confining you to the barbaric perspective of humanity.

If you develop the correct spiritual neural network in your higher cortical brain which can be proven with FMRI images, i am sure you will think more humanely.

Kopi O Tarik said...

The Quran has many meanings & different meanings for nearly everyone...

So, it is you whom are behaving like a nutter with all these radical posts.

Tulang Besi said...

Human Beings says:

"I had given my comments in other threads in your blog and justified why 2:54 should be viewed either on time/cultural based or metaphorically, with heavy doses of empathy and in a humane manner."

MY REPLY: I have also provided my rebutal to your claim and proved t you that there is nothing humane about Haris's interpretation.


to disrespect God is never a humane thing to do.

Tulang Besi said...

Kopi O Tarik said...
The Quran has many meanings & different meanings for nearly everyone...

So, it is you whom are behaving like a nutter with all these radical posts.

MY REPLY: Actually no, the Quran has only one meaning, of which we cannot change as we wish.

HumanBeing said...

MY REPLY: I have also provided my rebutal to your claim and proved to you that there is nothing humane about Haris's interpretation.
to disrespect God is never a humane thing to do.
---------------------

Note my intent of using the word 'humane' was with reference to other humans and animals.

Humane: 1. characterized by tenderness, compassion, and sympathy for people and animals, esp. for the suffering or distressed: humane treatment of horses.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humane

Your omnipotent and omniscient god (assuming he exists) do not need humane treatment or attitude from humans.

You had wrongly thought you could be humane to god, then you'll get a his consent to act inhuman to others.

Btw, being humane and exercising empathy for others is a distinct trait of humans with higher degrees of spirituality.

It can come from anyone who had the necessary neural and psychological state.
Those who have this ability will naturally express 2:54 in the metaphorical perspective in accordance to their higher level of spiritual consciousness. These wiser people can be Ahmadiya, Buddhist, Sunni, Shia, Sufi, Christians, etc.

Thus those with higher spiritual will interpret god's word positively and act humanely. This is one ultimately act of respect, i.e. by doing good work in god's name.

It is only those with lower level of kindergarten spirituality that are likely to interpret 2:54 in the barbaric sense of killing humans as a penalty for a change of their religious belief.

If you act inhumanely or like a barbarian after reading and interpretating god's word, that is real disrespect to god and in addition you are also disgracing your god by your thoughts and act.

It is like somebody who is KA and people will blame the parent's teaching.

The default teachings of god must be humane and humans (individual and groups) must act humane, so that they do not tarnish god's name in the eyes of others.

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