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Thursday, June 19, 2008

PAS’es Shariah Proposal: Much Ado About Nothing

The Shariah is already implemented in Malaysia. How do u explain the existence of Shariah courts? Shariah is a part of Islam. To deny shariah is to deny Muslims from practicing their religion. That’s not fair isn’t it?

PAS does not implement Islam like UMNO. PAS’s Islamic credential is intact on the count that they are confident of their Islamic identity. UMNO doesn’t consider Islam as their ideology, and therefore they’re forced to resort to firing up sentiments to prove their Islamic credentials i.e. body snatchings etc
.

The recent response to Azman Shapawi’s speech by certain quarters has educated me in the fact that shariah phobia is still strong among a certain segment of the society. What saddens me is the such phobia is leading a lot people into making unreasonable and twisted statements against Shariah, and subsequently against Islam.

What one has to remember is that Shariah is PART of Islam. To resist Shariah is by definition to resist Islam. Yet, the same individuals will go around saying that they are not against Islam. Yet, when there is a proposal for implementation of Shariah, all hell breaks loose. In truth, anyone against the Shariah is against Isla, because Shariah is one of the main component of Islam.

As for being worried about the Shariah proposal, let me list down 10 specific reasons why it is not wise to worry about it:

1.0 Azman Shapawi is not a high ranking member of the party. He is only the Deputy Youth Head.

2.0 The word used is “Siyasah Shariiyah” and not “Shariah” per say. There is a difference and they both carry different meaning to each other.(Refer to the report here).

3.0 PAS’es record of implementing Islamic rules applies only to Muslims. Anyone who can find a Kelantan Non Muslim being religiously oppressed can answer Jed Yoong’s advertisement at
WANTED: Oppressed/Maltreated/Abused/etc Non-Muslim/Muslim in Kelantan

4.0 Azman’s suggestion is still at proposal stage and will be subjected to a seminar, not to mention having to go through the party structure first. Whatever proposal on Islam, it will have to be agreed upon by component parties of PR.

5.0 The Shariah is already implemented in Malaysia. How do u explain the existence of Shariah courts? Shariah is a part of Islam. To deny shariah is to deny Muslims from practicing their religion. That’s not fair isn’t it?

6.0PAS does not implement Islam like UMNO. PAS’s Islamic credential is intact on the count that they are confident of their Islamic identity. UMNO doesn’t consider Islam as their ideology, and therefore they’re forced to resort to firing up sentiments to prove their Islamic credentials i.e. body snatchings etc.

7.0 The Shariah courts in Malaysia is more credible and have more integrity than their Civil counterpart. In fact, the only problem faced by the Syariah Courts is the lack of judges.

8.0 The term “Taliban” is often linked to Islamic laws and shariah. This is false considering “talibanism” is well and alive in Saudi Arabia. Feel free to peruse “Life in Taleban Country pt 1” and “pt 2” for further details. In spite of practicing Taliban policies, multinationals from around the world invests in the Saudi by the billions. The Saudi TGI Fridays, Burger Kings, McDonalds etc are all gender segregated and but there isn’t a single complaint by any of the international media.

9.0 Islamic Syariah is said to be harsh and cruel. But, so is Chinese legal system and yet it doesn’t stop multinationals from investing in China by the Trillions of USD. To have a glance of the Chinese Penal system, click here.

10.0 Islamic Shariah is said to be bringing people backwards. Of course, this is a myth considering Muslims around the world have been ruled by secular elites, and they have gone backwards under the rule of secular elites and not Islamists.

MUSLIMS HAVE THE RIGHT TO PRACTICE THEIR RELIGION IN IT’S ENTIRETY

At the end of the day, it is unfair to deny Muslims in this country from practicing their religion in it’s entirety. Malays have always been known to be committed to the religion they profess. When Malays were Buddhists under the Srivijaya empire, they built the Brobodur temple and it became one of the Wonders of the world.

When Malays converted to Islam, they maintain their commitment to their religion. If Islam states that it is a complete way of life, the Malays adheres to it. That is why the Islamic shariah have been in practiced among the Malays for hundreds of years.

Only the British forced the Islamic shariah to be shelved and forced secularism down the Malay throat. Thanks to UMNO of course.

Therefore, it is unfair for anyone to deny Malays and Muslims in this country to practice their religion especially when we’ve had this law for centuries.

WHY FEAR SHARIAH?

I can name a few reason why such phobia is present, but let me highlight a few:

a. Fear tactics by BN parties to get Non Muslims away from PAS even if it means spreading lies and deception about Shariah and Islam.

b. The liberal media anti-Islam role in spreading the wrong information on Islam. In the context of Malaysia, the name “The Star” and “New Straits Times” comes to mind. Jed Yoong happens to agree with me as quoted below:

“Right now, the fact that The Star has lied to me all these years about Kelantan and PAS makes me question the real Malaysia apart from that potrayed by the BN-controlled media. It’s no joke to be lied to, effectively. I expected a Taliban state: feudal, close-minded, oppressed women. My experience, however, has been the total opposite so far.”(Click here to read the article)

c. The “Taleban” label being used to villify anyone suggesting or even alluding to Islamic Shariah. The real truth is that the war in Afghanistan launched by America was all about making Dick Chenney richer. The Taleban are the same people that fought the Russians, yet they were not villify then.

d. The Shariah is always linked to oppression of women. This is actually another product of misinformation campaign. After the removal of Taleban from Afghanistan, the women in Afghanistan are still oppressed.

e. The real reason for Shariah to be looked upon in a bad light is because it is a set of religious lawas being practiced in the “public domain”. Such thing is very much in contrast with secularism, which is the ideology of the western world. As such, when a religious law crosses the private line, it will be frowned upon by any self professed secularists.

f. Misinformation by “Secular Muslims”: There are a small minority of the Muslims that speaks ill of the Shariah as well. These group of Muslim are not very much informed of the Shariah, yet they speak from their own personal interpretation of the Shariah, which is warpped. But, since they are given ample coverage by the media, they seem to carry an authority in the subject matter, when they lack any authority to speak on the subject of Shariah.

For a good explanation of Shariah, I suggest reading an article entitled “Why Shariah” by Noah Feldman.

Tulang Besi at www.malaysiawaves.com

41 comments:

Anonymous said...

I am a non-Muslim and I say thanks for the honest article. I always believe in freedom of religion (Islam included) and your article must be read by all Malaysians. The trouble with Malaysians is the way they believe everything and are gullible towards everything west. This is what I propose. The PAS people who champion Islam by their passion must do at least two things to get things through to Non-Muslims. First, they must not over react over trivial issues - and let people learn through education. The more one is forced, the more one will resist. Remember, when they come up with a law in Kelantan, every race is involved. So some may be afraid to lose some freedom, maybe a little right now, perhaps, Talibanic later.

The second is that the leaders of PAS or any Muslim leaders must be able to articulate well. They cannot just said something without assessing all areas of concern.

Anyway, thanks for the article. It is enlightening.

Anonymous said...

There is one problem with this whole picture, and it is a Big One.

Its the draconian practice which states Islam as a one-way ticket. Individuals have to be given the freedom to change their religion when they want. Shoving religion and Shariah laws down their throats is the same as what you have stated above.

I've no issue of having a Shariah and Civil laws but an individual should be given his basic rights. Then perhaps we will she some semblance of racial integrity happen, like in Brazil, etc.

Anonymous said...

Muslims as you admit already have shariah in place. Why should it be implemented as malaysian covering non Muslims? Then comes the Dhimmi state for non Muslims which might be fair in your view but unfair in a non Muslim view. Imagine if every one wants to have their own religious faith to be made a law in the country. Then we would (imagine!) have Muslim law, Christien law, Buddhist law..to name a few. And for your information every religion has their own rules and also religion is considered a way of life.
Muslims already use their Syariah law in the country like Malaysia. why the need to impose Muslim values/ laws defined by Muslims as a law for non Muslims?

Just because non muslims in kelantan don't complain about PAS does not mean they are happy. many just say as long as they can cari makan ...never mind lah..For example, there is a Hindu temple in Kota Bharu. But do you know it is not constructed according to full Hindu specifications? The temple has to be built like a normal building so that its not visible from out side as a temple...(so that it will not offend the Muslims). Now u say this is correct? You think the Hindus there are going to kick a fuss on the national newspapers? They just silently go on as long as they are allowed to have at least some liberty.Because BN did not even allow them to bild a temple. So PAS is better then BN in that sense.
(I can / comment say coz I am not from kelantan!

Muslims can practise syariah according to their faith.I have no problem with that. You may convince non muslims that syariah is most fair..thats in ur view. In the first place no one country that practises syariah law implements it in similar way. look at syariah in Saudi for example. One is not allowed to practise their own faith. No churches are allowed to be built.Please do not try to make it a law of the country. The way some court decisions are made...I dont have to go into details.No offence meant here please! You may feel syariah is God made laws. Who implements them? Mere human beings particularly males.Then tehre is issue of Sunnis and syiahs. Ask how many Muslim women are happy with the way syariah courts handle their cases involving divorce and matrimonial matters.
Please, you are born as a Muslim and bund to it and its law. Make sure it functions well within your muslim society and improve on it.
Do not make religion a political issue. The beauty and purity of religion becomes filth when mixed with politics.
All humans should be free to have their own religion and faith.One man food is another man's poison. Our souls are created (thats my faith!) to realise God.The soul takes its journey by being born in different ways/ faiths what ever. Respect to another human for being a good human should be important without judging him by what faith he follows.A man is superior to oanother not based on his faith but based on how well he parctises it. Becasue no religion teaches one to be bad.
Please do not try to convice non muslims that syariah is all beautiful and fair. Its as bad as any court system if not worse because man makes the system based on his interpretation.Non muslims are happy with the civil courts system based on British law.
Please do not impose Muslims value on non Muslims. We too are humans.

Kopi O said...

Sure, go blame secualarism again for Muslims going backwards without a shred of evidence. Nearly all other races of all religions have succeeded with secularism.

This probably shows that:
1) Muslims like the play the blame game & not take responsibility & adapt
2) Resistance to change: what you resists, persists!
3) There are judgemental brainwashing elements in Islam that is a smothering & does not promote diversity & tolerance

It seems that PAS might be out to destroy true Malay culture as we knew it from the time of the Malacca sultanate & even up to the 20s & early 60s.

All in the name of more power & control (for Pas & Islamists).

Shame on you, time to stand up & defend your original Malay culture!

Serious Shepherd said...

If we are to use common sense, 60% of Malaysians are Muslims thus we are supposed to be using Islamic law and not British law since the British makes up to less than 1% of Malaysian population.

It is also important to note that the British law was not enforced on this land willingly but by means of imperialism.

It is wrong and unfair to apply Islamic law in France where the Muslims make only 5-10% of the population. The same rule of logic should be applied here.

The statement 'do not impose Muslim values on non-Muslims' should work vice versa. We must not forget that non-Muslim values have been imposed on Muslims for decades, such as the practice of usury, tolerance of fornication, and Muslims' Sabbath is moved to Sunday.

Anonymous said...

If PAS wanted to implement Islamic state, we RAKYAT will send PAS to HELL FOREVER!!! Do you UNDERSTAND!!!!

Anonymous said...

I DON'T CARE IF YOU WANT TO BE A DEVOUT MUSLIM OR WHATEVER! AS LONG AS YOU DON'T TRY TO IMPOSE YOUR VALUES ON ME, LIKE A BRUTAL POLICE-STATE! IS THIS WHAT RELIGION IS ABOUT - TO ENFORCE VALUES BY THE 'SWORD'? THAT'S REALLY WHAT TALEBAN/AL-QAEDA'S IDEOLOGY IS ABOOUT; IF YOU LEARN HOW TO ANALYZE THINGS DEEPLY & WISELY! INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON STUPID THINGS SUCH AS BLAMING THE WOMEN & GIRLS EVERYTIME MUSLIM/MALAY GUYS GET SEXED UP OVER THEIR CLOTHES; WHY DON'T THE PAS TALEBAN MULLAHS FOCUS ON MORE IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE BRINGING THE UMNO GOONS OR THE MALAYS/MUSLIMS WHO ARE COMMITTING SEXUAL CRIMES SUCH AS THE MONSTERS WHO KILLED ALTANTUYA TO REAL JUSTICE! START LOOKING AT THE MIRROR AND SEE ONE'S 'EVIL' SELF BEFORE BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE! PLUS, I HAD EXPERIENCED PERSONALLY THE SYARIA COURT; NEVER AGAIN! I RATHER NOT GET A SINGLE CENT FROM MY EX, AFTER 10 YRS, MIND YOU, THAN FACING ALL THE BARBARIC, SEXIST AND SADIST LAWYERS AND JUDGE INCLUDING FROM THE SYARIA LEGAL AID KL! 'EVIL' JERKS THEY'RE; AS USUAL BLAMED THE WOMEN!

NOOR AZA OTHMAN
LIBERAL-FEMINIST MALAY WOMAN; AND WILL FIGHT ASSERTIVELY TO BE SO!

Anonymous said...

Serious Shepherd
If one goes by majorty population; muslims will be in shit holesin most part of the world.Imagine in India for example.Malaysia had 50:50 muslim and no muslim population n 1957. It just shows ur pea brain.Whats wrong with existing system? The non uslims are not complaning about the civil justice system they have.Infact many Musims are complaning about syariah law. Go fix that first!
Don talk cock about how great the syariah courts are. Ask Muslim females (behind their veils!)who have gone trough the system. They are treated like shit. My Arab Muslim friend tells me if one follows the holy book no average man human can qualify to marry 4 women. How the syariah courts in different states in malaysia implement it? When I went to kelantan I heard my tax driver shouting across at another taxi driver...when he is getting his no 2, then he told me he himself has already got 3 wifes. How many wifes theyhave is a shw of power???First of all ur system can't even agree between states in Malaysia and u want to include non Mulim into ur mess?
Go live in ur own shit hole to realise ur ideas.
Don't think just because u r a muslim u get direct access to God and be little others faith. Larn to have open mind Come out of the 'tempurong'. There is a lot more to life then syariah law for non Muslims.

Anak Perelih said...

Why used the word "Taliban PAS".. not "Saudi PAS"??? Both implement syariah law in their administration... the answer is... Saudi is the American Pet in the middle east... not Taliban... it prove that those who labeled PAS as Taliban are being fooled /stooges of Bush and his newcons... even these Bush and newcons is being rejected by Americans and the west now... Obama for President!!!

Before attacking PAs for the proposal.. we must remember Islam is PAS's idealogy... so to ask PAS to leave islamic line is like asking DAP to reject Malaysian Malaysia or like asking PKR to kick Anwar out of the party....

In 1999 under "Islamic State" and "Justice" slogan, PAs won 27 seats... in 2008, under "negara berkebajikan" which was to be inline with DAP and PKR... PAS won only 20 seats... they did not win big in Terengganu and Perlis... the answer is.. because UMNO is tauting PAS Through MSM that PAS is abandoning its Islamic state ideology and it is still being used now... and many Muslims who were not well inform was trapped with this UMNO propaganda and not giving votes to PAS... So dou you want PAS to suffer in 13th election??? PR will suffer too if PAS suffers...!!!

Anak Perelih said...

HEY Noor Aza a/p Othman...

how about imposing secularism on others...??? Wearing head cover/tudung in Turkey for example...?? should we call these "secular zealot" as "TALIBAN SECULAR".. or "SECULAR TALIBAN"... hahahah

BTW.. those altantuya murderer including the one who odered it.. will be brought to true justice (not like current justice).... when PAS rule the country... now.. PAS don't have power at federal level... what a stupid suggestion you made....

BTW.. don't judge Islam and Islamic law by your own personal experience..... you're acting like a jerk... that's make you looks stupid too by reacting irrationally... we all know how current Islamic law being implemented in Malaysia... it's a 3-6-5 law... 3 years, 6 strokes, Rm5K.... not the real shariah law as stated in Quran and Hadis

Anonymous said...

Hey the usual idiot Anak perelih, I bet you don't like it when a woman challenges you ha! First you don't know what feminism means, now you don't have a clue what secularism means! Baik you balik kpg, tanam ubikayu! Secularism fundamentally means to depoliticize religion, back to personal cultural sphere where it rightly belongs! The PAS Taliban/Al-Qaeda mullahs by imposing religion through the "sword"/violence or brutal force will only make many Muslims and non-Muslims alike hate the religion and its followers! Pathetic, that you and the PAS mullahs dare to use GOD and Islam for your own brutal power! Sick; you and these mullahs really belong in the cave with Osama & his Taliban goons! And don't come back, since you hate the modern, multicultural and diverse Malaysia so much!

NOOR AZA OTHMAN,
LIBERAL-FEMINIST MALAY WOMAN!

Tulang Besi said...

Dear Nor Aza,

U claim to be a liberal feminists. In short, it means that you are anti religion, not only ISlam but also just about any religion there is.

Secondly, what is enforced is Islam is from the Quran and Sunnah and it's not the creation of Taleban. So, by saying that you're against the laws being enforced, you're declaring war on the Quran and Sunnah.

Tulang Besi said...

Nor Aza says:

" The PAS Taliban/Al-Qaeda mullahs by imposing religion through the "sword"/violence or brutal force will only make many Muslims and non-Muslims alike hate the religion and its followers! Pathetic, that you and the PAS mullahs dare to use GOD and Islam for your own brutal power! "

MY REPLY: u keep using the word Taleban and kept referring to living in caves and such.

Allow me to prove you wrong. Please refer to these links:


Life in Taleban Country pt 2 (http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2008/05/life-in-taleban-country-pt-2.html)
Life in "Taliban" Country Pt 1
(http://www.malaysiawaves.com/2008/05/life-in-taleban-country-pt-2.html)

You will be proven wrong, big time

Tulang Besi said...

Nor Aza,

I doubt that you will ever find peace with Islam.

WHy? because feminism advocates hating men, and the final analysis, adopting lesbianism as their way of life.

Therefore, i doubt you can ever find peace with Islam

Tulang Besi said...

dear anonymous June 19, 2008 1:48 PM

TQ for your show of support. I have to admit part of the problem is the half baked statement made by PAS leaders with regards to Islamic laws.

THey never think through their words and always get caught by the game played by anti ISlam media such as NST, THe Star etc

Tulang Besi said...

Incidently, Nor Aza, do u know why feminists hates Taleban so much.

In the movie Farenheit 911, a footage of a Taleban ambassador having a dialouge with feminists leaders in New York.

In it, the Taleban ambassador is quoted as saying that he pities the husbands of these feminists leaders.

What the ambassador doesn't know is that no man in their right mind would marry a feminists and the feminists leaders are getting a cold jolt up their spine as to why they are not desirable by men.

So, these feminists leaders became angry and started to use their influence especially their connection with the media to villify the Taleban.

All because the Taleban clearly challanged their ideology.

What a funny story.

Tulang Besi said...

Incidently, Nor Aza, do u know why feminists hates Taleban so much.

In the movie Farenheit 911, a footage of a Taleban ambassador having a dialouge with feminists leaders in New York.

In it, the Taleban ambassador is quoted as saying that he pities the husbands of these feminists leaders.

What the ambassador doesn't know is that no man in their right mind would marry a feminists and the feminists leaders are getting a cold jolt up their spine as to why they are not desirable by men.

So, these feminists leaders became angry and started to use their influence especially their connection with the media to villify the Taleban.

All because the Taleban clearly challanged their ideology.

What a funny story.

Tulang Besi said...

Incidently, Nor Aza, do u know why feminists hates Taleban so much.

In the movie Farenheit 911, a footage of a Taleban ambassador having a dialouge with feminists leaders in New York.

In it, the Taleban ambassador is quoted as saying that he pities the husbands of these feminists leaders.

What the ambassador doesn't know is that no man in their right mind would marry a feminists and the feminists leaders are getting a cold jolt up their spine as to why they are not desirable by men.

So, these feminists leaders became angry and started to use their influence especially their connection with the media to villify the Taleban.

All because the Taleban clearly challanged their ideology.

What a funny story.

Anonymous said...

TULANG BESI, YOU'RE THE MOST STUPID MAN I'VE MET SO FAR! DON'T KNOW WHAT LIBERAL OR FEMINISM MEANS, WANT TO TALK BULSHIT ABOUT IT! WHAT A MORON - YOU EQUATE FEMINISM WITH LESBIANISM; AND MORE RIDICULOUS, LIBERALISM WITH ATHEISM! WHAT A JOKE THIS BLOG OF YOURS IS! ONE LAST THING, I PITY THOSE BURQA-CLAD WIVES/CHATTELS/COWS, WHERE MANY CAN'T READ OR WRITE, OF THE TALIBAN STONE AGE CAVEMEN; THAT SEEM TO HAVE SPREAD THEIR SICK MINDS AMONGST THE PAS YOUNG MULLAHS! NO WONDER THESE TALIBAN CAVEMEN CANNOT STAND FEMINISTS; OUR POISON PEN & WORDS ARE MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD/VIOLENT THREATS/ACTS, NO MATTER HOW MANY!

NOOR AZA OTHMAN,

LIBERAL-FEMINIST MALAY WOMAN!

Anonymous said...

I LIKE U SAID NOR AZA. ASK TULANG BESI TO FIND OUT HOW MANY MUSLIM WOMEN LIKE SYARIAH COURT JUSTICE IN THE COUNTRY. THEY/SYARIAH COURT ARE THE SEXIST. THEY THINK WOMEN ARE A THING FOR THEIR SEXUAL PLEASURE. THEY NEVER ASK IF A AMN DID HIS DUTY. THEY ASK IF THE WOMAN DID. ALL THEY NEED IS SEX FROM WOMEN AND DON'T CARE IF THE MAN IS FAIR OR PROVIDES BASIC NEEDS FOR FAMILY.
WITH THIS KIND OF BACKGROUND HOW CAN NON MUSLIMS BE CONFIDENT OR COMFORTABLE WITH THE SYARIAH COURT.
TULANG BESI. GO FIX THE SYRAIH COURT PROBLEMS B4 U WANT TO IMPOSE ON OTHERS.
IF NOT GO HANG YOUR SELF!!!

Tulang Besi said...

Anonymous said...
I LIKE U SAID NOR AZA. ASK TULANG BESI TO FIND OUT HOW MANY MUSLIM WOMEN LIKE SYARIAH COURT JUSTICE IN THE COUNTRY. THEY/SYARIAH COURT ARE THE SEXIST. THEY THINK WOMEN ARE A THING FOR THEIR SEXUAL PLEASURE. THEY NEVER ASK IF A AMN DID HIS DUTY. THEY ASK IF THE WOMAN DID.


MY REPLY: Actually majority of women in Malaysia has no problem with our shariah courts.

But, since a small minority of women feels bad about it, added to the fact that anti Islam media helps their cause, it looked like the Shariah courts are bad.

In truth, empirical studies have shown that the problems are never with the courts but the fact that many women doesn't know their rights under the Shariah courts.

So, please stop airing generalized accusations that is mostly untrue and start providing facts.

Tulang Besi said...

Nor Aza said:
"THAT SEEM TO HAVE SPREAD THEIR SICK MINDS AMONGST THE PAS YOUNG MULLAHS! NO WONDER THESE TALIBAN CAVEMEN CANNOT STAND FEMINISTS; OUR POISON PEN & WORDS ARE MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD/VIOLENT THREATS/ACTS, NO MATTER HOW MANY!"

MY REPLY: Actually, now that the Taleban has gone, they women are still oppressed and denied of their rights in Afghanistan.

The real culprit behind women's oppression in Afghanistan is a code called PUSHTUNWALI.

In it, among all, women are denied their rights for inheritence, mercy killings and many more.

The Taleban brought back the Shariah courts which banned mercy killings and reinstituted the inheritance for women.

But when they were toppled, such reform was thwarted and now the women of Afghanistan continue to suffer.

Serious Shepherd said...

Anonymous June 19 10:51 PM
1957 is 1957 and 2008 is 2008 just like 1911 should remain 1911 where the Malays made up 58.6% of the population. You may blame the "relatively more rapid decline in fertility in recent years" of a certain community (Saw, Swee Hock, The Population of Peninsular Malaysia, Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, 2007, page 65) with regard to the increasing percentage of Malay/Muslim population today.

I have complaints with the 'civil justice system' that charges a Chinese who was beaten up by FRU with murder, or want to charge parents whose child was kidnapped with negligence. Not to mention that the 'civil justice system' focuses on pursuing 'extremists' and let Lelaki Kucing to remain at large.

The current syariah law is merely part of 'penerapan nilai-nilai Islam' Islamic makeup by the BN government to counter the wave of Islamic Resurgence during the 80s. It's just a makeup, thus perfection is something that should not be expected.

Islam allows polygamy with limit set to 4, in contrast with other religion that disallows polygamy but allows a man to have unlimited mistresses whose kids are not bounded to be under the obligation of the father.

'Disagreements' between states regarding syariah law is not a problem, just like the disagreements between states in the United States of America when it comes to playing firecrackers, how to execute criminals and gay marriage.

moin said...

Hi, this is a good article. I appreciate you doing good job...

Anonymous said...

Seriou sheperd
Pls tell me /quote me which religion allows people to have mistresses and uncountable number of wifes....Please. One has to be able to distingish between a man's habbbits cultire vs religion.
Humans are human. They would do eanythong even murder. That does not mean his religion allows that.
So you say no muslim man drink, womanise..etc etc coz he is allowed to marry 4. What a stupid solution you have.
Go live in the cave. Kill ur brothers the syiahs.....is that what u think ur relion tells u to do. So accoring to u ur religion asked the 9/11 bombers to bomb all innocent civilians? Don hide behid religion. Then its people like u who give bad name to Islam

Anonymous said...

Tulang Besi,
If you have the knowledge and time pls look at this website- writen by a muslim about Islam. How can one wants to impose law based on this kind of civilization....
Pls enlighten non Muslims...what is said here(with quoted from the holybook)
Tx
.http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/

Anti Syariah

Tulang Besi said...

Dear Anti Shariah,

Where I am right now, the url http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/

is blocked and cannot be accessed.

I shall need a favor from you to copy and paste it in a document and email to me at cabearth4@yahoo.ca

Anonymous said...

Firstly, where did you got the idea that liberalism means anti-religion? Again, feminism advocates hating men? …and finally adopting lesbianism? You are a clown!

“Actually majority of women in Malaysia has no problem with our shariah courts” – it’s only an ‘actually’. And stop justifying yourself by quoting that the MSM are behind all these crap. Question the females in Iran and they’ll actually tell you how much they hate the system! Many that went against the system were put to death. So eventually, no body resists, they just bow to the entire system. (google this bif of information, it should be something new to your ignorant self).

You are a Muslim. You believe in God and in the Quran. You have faith in God and the Quran. But all these have yet to be proven. So not ANY human can claim such things exist. Negate this: Believe comes before judgment. (for an example, a murder is not one until he is proven guilty in court). Please do not give lame justifications as most of your points in your articles/postings are supported by narrow-minded, lame justifications.

Another issue. I am heterosexual & a medical student. I have no problems with gays, lesbians, transexualism & transvertites. These people are born as such. In other words, it was nature gone wrong. No ‘production’ of nature is 100% correct, that is why we have mutations, teratogenic effects or in our language Malay we would say ‘kecacatan’. So it possible for these people to have ‘characteral’ problem. So who do we blame now? You can’t force these people to be ‘normal’. You can’t force an adult to wear a baby’s shoe.

Tulang Besi said...

anon says:

" Anonymous said...
Firstly, where did you got the idea that liberalism means anti-religion? Again, feminism advocates hating men? …and finally adopting lesbianism? You are a clown!"

MY REPLY: Will secular liberalism support shariah laws?

As for feminism, I believe you need to study feminism deeeper to find out the true nature of feminism.

and trust me it's not about fighting for women's rights at all.

Tulang Besi said...

anony. says:

"“Actually majority of women in Malaysia has no problem with our shariah courts” – it’s only an ‘actually’. And stop justifying yourself by quoting that the MSM are behind all these crap. Question the females in Iran and they’ll actually tell you how much they hate the system! Many that went against the system were put to death."

MY REPLY: I do not see any evidence presented by you for your claim that women hates the Shariah system in Malaysia.

Maybe u can provide some information first, then we can discuss this issue even better.

Tulang Besi said...

anony. says:

"“Actually majority of women in Malaysia has no problem with our shariah courts” – it’s only an ‘actually’. And stop justifying yourself by quoting that the MSM are behind all these crap. Question the females in Iran and they’ll actually tell you how much they hate the system! Many that went against the system were put to death."

MY REPLY: I do not see any evidence presented by you for your claim that women hates the Shariah system in Malaysia.

Maybe u can provide some information first, then we can discuss this issue even better.

Tulang Besi said...

Anon says:

Another issue. I am heterosexual & a medical student. I have no problems with gays, lesbians, transexualism & transvertites. These people are born as such.

MY REPLY: All I know s that the claim that gays are born as such made by you is never proven scientifically.

Most of the study cited are inconclusive or biased.

Even Alfred C kinsey, the father of homosexual sex, have been proven to have "spiked" his study.

Maybe u can enlighten us even more.

Tulang Besi said...

anony.

I found a study at http://narth.com/docs/isminor.html on why SSA is not genetic.

In fact there is an organization called Narth who offers treatment for homosexuality.

And they managed to change people from homosexuality to straightness

Tulang Besi said...

Anon says:

You are a Muslim. You believe in God and in the Quran. You have faith in God and the Quran. But all these have yet to be proven.

MY REPLY: from what i've studied, the Quran and God has been proven to have existed. Without question.


anon says: So not ANY human can claim such things exist. Negate this: Believe comes before judgment. (for an example, a murder is not one until he is proven guilty in court). Please do not give lame justifications as most of your points in your articles/postings are supported by narrow-minded, lame justifications.

MY REPLY: it's so easy to believe on thing which has been proven to be true.

Tulang Besi said...

More on homosexuality:

"But can gays actually change? Epstein said that he had seen some "interesting data" supporting the ethics and effectiveness of reorientation therapy. He cited recent research, featured on the NARTH web site and just published in an APA journal, by NARTH Fellow Award recipient Warren Throckmorton, Ph.D., "which suggests that sexual orientation conversion therapy is at least sometimes successful...From this and other sources I'd guess that such therapy is probably successful about a third of the time."

Epstein then notes that perhaps another third of the clients--those who do not succeed and eventually drop out--"are unhappy or even angry" about their failure to change. These figures might sound discouraging, he says, but there are many similar examples of clinical problems that resist change.

He notes that agoraphobia (fear of leaving home) and autism are also very difficult to treat successfully, and that "angry outcomes" after therapy often occur as a result of many difficult treatments, such as marital counseling."

Tulang Besi said...

More on homosexuality:

"But can gays actually change? Epstein said that he had seen some "interesting data" supporting the ethics and effectiveness of reorientation therapy. He cited recent research, featured on the NARTH web site and just published in an APA journal, by NARTH Fellow Award recipient Warren Throckmorton, Ph.D., "which suggests that sexual orientation conversion therapy is at least sometimes successful...From this and other sources I'd guess that such therapy is probably successful about a third of the time."

Epstein then notes that perhaps another third of the clients--those who do not succeed and eventually drop out--"are unhappy or even angry" about their failure to change. These figures might sound discouraging, he says, but there are many similar examples of clinical problems that resist change.

He notes that agoraphobia (fear of leaving home) and autism are also very difficult to treat successfully, and that "angry outcomes" after therapy often occur as a result of many difficult treatments, such as marital counseling."

Anonymous said...

Dear Tulang Besi,

>> Will secular liberalism support shariah laws?

definitely not. So you are gonna say that anything that goes against Shariah laws is anti-Islam. Alright, every Islamic scholar has a different point of view in this matter. Whose telling the truth? No body will ever know.

>> As for feminism, I believe you need to study feminism deeeper to find out the true nature of feminism. and trust me it's not about fighting for women's rights at all.

Why not you study deeper :)

If you can say feminism leads to lesbianism, then it’s also okay to say fundamentalistic approach to Islam breeds Islamic terrorists – or well, fundemantalistic approach to Hinduism breeds Hindu terrorists etc.

The point here is that, in any forms of -isms, there are bound to be ‘extremists’. Fundementalistic approach to Islam or Hinduism doesn’t necessarily breed terrorism. The same applies to feminism.

>> I do not see any evidence presented by you for your claim that women hates the Shariah system in Malaysia. Maybe u can provide some information first, then we can discuss this issue even better.

I’ll roll the ball back to you.

>> All I know s that the claim that gays are born as such made by you is never proven scientifically. Most of the study cited are inconclusive or biased.

Once again, if you wanna present this as an argument point, can God be proven scientifically? Homosexuality is a form of sexual orientation. It’s like hunger, which is a subjective feeling. Can you prove hunger scientifically?

>> In fact there is an organization called Narth who offers treatment for homosexuality. And they managed to change people from homosexuality to straightness

If a gay wants to be straight, I have no problems with that. But if someone decides to force the person to be straight, then I do not agree this as it goes against one’s free will. Being a medical student, I can tell you that psychological treatment is similar to ‘brain-washing’? When a patient visits a psychologist, it’s the psychologist’s duty to manipulate the patients’ mind to suit the desired objective.

Just to let you know that the method used, its just another form of ‘brain-washing’ or ‘reformatting’. For an example, put a chicken egg into the nest of a duck. When all the eggs hatched, the mother duck will assume the chicken chic is hers – and the chicken chic will assume the duck as it’s mother. How? Through psychological interaction. The same applies when tortoise lay eggs in a crocodile’s den. When the little tortoises hatch out of their eggs, the mother crocodile will take these little tortoises into her mouth and let them off into the river. How? Through psychological interaction

My point here is that, if you can change a homosexual to a straight person, IT IS NOT an evidence that the person is straight all these while. If you present this as an evidence, based on the points given above: a) The chicken chic is infact a ‘duckling’ because it’s mother is a duck. b) The little tortoises are infact ‘crocodile’ because it’s mother is a crocodile.

Through psychological approach, you can alter a person’s character. You can make one to become even stronger (eg. Military training, commando’s etc). Psychological approach is even used in forcing ‘victims’ to admit their mistakes when it isn’t (quit popular with our PDRM huh?).

In short, psychology doesn’t prove anything.

>> from what i've studied, the Quran and God has been proven to have existed. Without question.

Point noted

>> it's so easy to believe on thing which has been proven to be true.

You can’t ‘believe’ something that’s true. It doesn’t make sense. You can acknowledge that something is true. These are the ‘unsolved’ problems with Judeo-Christianity religions. That they can never negate ‘Believe comes before judgment” & that everything must not be questioned but accepted.

purist said...

Please allow me to say few words.
I am actually impressed by Noor Aza Othman and couple of other bloggers. It’s interesting to actually see a Muslim by birth is actually questioning the flaws in the practices of Islam teachings.
I don’t know about others but as a free thinker, I used to wonder how it is possible that millions of people embraced Islam worldwide. As weird as it may sound, I actually thought that it is because ISLAM is like one way traffic (once you get into it there is no way out), that how it is keep expanding. I couldn’t come out with any other explanation because the Islam that I see in Malaysia or in the media is just way too absurd to be able to logically rationalize it.
Muslims are controlled rather than educated. You guys are forced to fast, forced to pray, forced to wear tudung, forced to do everything as if you guys got no brain to think anything for yourself. Women are merely sex objects. I actually learned it recently from a friend of mine whom attended the krusus perkahwinan. Women’s role in a marriage is merely a sex object. Guys can marry four whereas women can’t. I can keep going. You guys got to excuse me on the fault finding here, I am trying to make a point here.
I was born as a Hindu and emerged as a free thinker. Human system works on believes. We got to believe in something else it would be difficult to rationalize our actions. That’s why religions were created by humans so we could rationalize our actions. I mean by HUMANS. If you look at Hinduism back in India right now (2008), there are at least 10 gods in making. I say in making because these entire super priests have the potential to be worshiped as god. Some are already claimed as God, such as Sathya Sai Baba. As absurd as it may sound, that is the reality. Religions are born every hour in this world of ours. Whether it is sustained or lost, depends on how good is its marketing strategies are. Yes, I didn’t say its teachings because if you look at some of oldest religion in this world, you would die laughing at their jokes that they call their teachings.
So, if we can’t rely on religion, what can we rely on? My answer is Humanity. We might be of different colours, different height or even different weight but we are all sane humans. Be kind to each other, be fair to each other, awareness that none of us are more superior that the other, if all of us can understand that basic concept, I don’t think we would need to religion to tell us what to do.
Each of us got on average about 50 years to live with our own sanity. Let’s develop the human race and not our greed of supremacy.

*PS :
A note to Miss. Noor Aza Othman.
Miss (I hope I got that right), you will get comments from people who are at lower mentality class than you are that will tell you that you are wrong, please don’t be dishearten as it is not their mistake but rather their incapacity to understand your higher mentality thinking. This country needs more people like you to provide the spark to create better people.

Tulang Besi said...

purists,

So basically, to you, anyone who questions their religion is good? Whether the question is valid or not, it makes no difference?

Also I noticed that free thinkers are usually snobbish and thinks that they're better than the rest.

THey get this sudden rush because they think that they hav been rescued from stupidity.

The truth is, free thinkers remains in stuidity, only a different type of stupidity?

Why? becuase it is VERY VERY stupid for anyone to think that when God created humans, GOd didn't send down laws and rules to be used by men.

Without law, there will be no order.

purist said...

Dear Tulang Besi,
To question is heavenly gift because it induces curiosity and leads to great discovery. This words are even said in Islam so I hope you can understand why I justify questioning. Who are you to decide whether the question is valid or not? The validity of all questions lies in the justification or discovery made from that question.
To say I am better than you maybe I am not nor I claim to be one but I can safely say that I am no longer prohibited by anyone or anything to do or ask whatever that crosses my mind as long as it is justified to my core personal believes.
I don’t wish to break your faith as that would be impossible unless it comes from within. God has given you and me whatever we need to orderly run our life. He doesn’t need to lecture us on Law and Order, It’s our job to figure it out.
Let me remind you that humans are not the only thing God created. Does being human makes you feel superior to other being that it has made you into believing that GOD himself have delivered his most sacred secret of law and order to you ? So you could use the secret into suppressing women and non – believers. Has the secret given you the ultimate right in this world to tell people what to do?
Does it even sound logical to you? Study your history well my brother, as the world is not as shallow as your mind. All I ask of you is to stop where you are right now. Distance yourself from religion, race, skin colour and your ego. Ask yourself a simple question, is this right ?. Am I saying the right thing ? Am I doing the right thing.
For one time in your life, forget that Islam prohibits you from questioning the religion. Just ask yourself. If I were a woman, how would I feel if I am treated like a sex object? What would I think about Islam if I was born as a Christian for example.
No religion in this world is perfect as it was written by human to suit the need of the people at their era so stop following it blindly and start climbing out of that well.
It would be easy to label me as kafir and forget this whole bunch of mambo jumbo but it would require strength, guts and an open mind to ponder about what I have just said.
Do you have it in you ? Whatever you decide after self examination is what you choose to believe and I would respect that decision of yours.

Anonymous said...

Islam doesn't produce thinkers because they are not allowed to question anything that's related to the holy scriptures and that of God. (Ideally, it's how they herd up the followers and control them).

Btw, I found this interesting article:

Islam 'recognizes homosexuality':
http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=9478&Itemid=1

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