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Saturday, June 14, 2008

Up To Our Necks With Islamophobes

I think the problem is not in Islam, the problem is in the mind of secularists around the world. Secularists simply cannot get past the fact that Islam is a "comprehensive way of life" and not a mere faith system.

Once secualrists can accept this fact, then understandng between Islam and secularists can be estadblished. As of now, all secularists are insisting that Islam changes itself into a secular mould. As long as this persists, the dichotomy will also continue
.

I read the article by Helen Ang entitled “Holy smoke! Islamophobes around and abound” with great interest. I could see that she is disturbed and she is merely venting her anger for some of the things she read in various articles, including the ones published here in Malaysiawaves.

I also noticed that she’s very jumpy about the Utusan Malaysia’s report in which the report misrepresented the true religion of Siti Fatimah Tan. She contributed a good deal of her article correcting the Utusan Malaysia report. I appreciate that although the correction is unnecessary considering it is not the central theme of the issue.

She uses the words “prejudice” and “stereotypes", but the problem is, the entire article lacks evidence pointing towards these words. I, however, noticed that Helen lacks proof for her dismay of the articles she read. She did, however, quote two examples:

“When one day it is your father’s remains that are bodysnatched by the LMNs (Little Mullah Napoleons) or your sister who is losing custody of her children to her Muslim convert husband, then your indifference would have come home to roost.”

On the first example, let it be known that body snatching incidence only occurred in the Barisan Nasional administered governments. It’s funny that under PAS, such indicent never occurred in Kelantan or Terengganu (1999-2004). Apparently, UMNO needs to present themselves as defenders of Islam despite them being a secular-nationalists. It is my belief that these body snatching incidence are part of their political ploy to appeal to the Malay electorates. PAS, on the other hand, does not require such theatrics. For one, PAS believes in Islam wholeheartedly and practices Islam in their daily lives. Their demeanor alone is enough to convince the Malays that they true to their Islamic beliefs. UMNO, on the other hand, does not have such luxury because UMNO doesn’t believe in Islam as a way of life.

As for her second example, then Helen will need to blame the likes of Haris, Malik Imtiaz, Zainah Anwar etc for resisting the Shariah provision on apostasy. The Shariah provision on apostasy is designed to prevent abuses such as the one mentioned above. Islam does not recognized conversion for any other reason other than true and genuine belief based on understanding. That is why Siti Fatimah Tan managed to get her annulment from Islam.

In fact, Haris Ibrahm argues that laws on Apostasy is not “Quranic”. If that is so, then Harris must condemn Saidina Musa AS as in 02:54, Saidina Musa clearly prescribed the punishment of death for apostates. And how can Haris Ibrahim say it’s not Quranic when 02:54 exists in the Quran?

Helen also referred to my articles in Malaysiawaves where I made several statements that she quotes:

a. “Is the DAP really sincere about upholding our constitution? Or DAP (and Karpal Singh) [sic] real interest is really to eradicate Malays and Islam from the face of the Malaysian earth?”
b. : “After 50 years, Muslims around the world have realized that secularism have [sic] destroyed the Muslims and made Muslims go backwards.”
c. “….he believes their likes are “ideologues” who promote a “secular liberalism ideology”, and that the two lawyers disrespect the Syariah Courts.

My dear Helen Ang, I stand by all my statement (although a. is more of a question rather than a statement). I believe they are all true and Helen, despite quoting them, did not provide any credible counter argument. Rather, there was no argument at all.

I also noticed that Helen demonstrated her misunderstanding of the Siti Fatimah case. I suggest anyone wanting to get a clearer picture to refer to my article at Siti Fatimah Tan Reverting Case Blows Secularism Out The Window. In it you will find links to interview with Siti Fatimah Tan’s shariah council. Suffice to say that eating pork is just one supporting argument to Siti’s entire case. It is not the only case presented by her legal council.

Helen too used the terms “religious bigotry” and “blinkered dogmatism”. My question to Helen Ang is “where is your proof”? Just because Haris Ibrahim and Malik Imtiaz questioning certain provisions in the Islamic law doesn’t make that law a dogma? Could it be that Haris and Malik are wrong themselves? Is there a possibility that both Haris and Malik misunderstand the Islamic laws and acted in ignorance?
To date, I have not seen any of the argument brought forward by the so-call “liberal muslims” to be credible. All of the time, the muslim liberals are just trying to reinterpret Islam so that Islam can be seen in tune with Secular liberalism i.e. resistance to laws on apostasy, wearing of hijab for women, Islamic family laws, prohibition of alcohol etc.

I do appreciate if Helen can be more specific in here reservations to Islam and not empty accusations and labels.

Lastly, my advice to Helen Ang and anyone out there not liking Islam, please have an open mind. Islam is a system that has existed for the last 1400 years. If it is faulty, then it would have been rejected or destroyed a long time ago. Or, at least it would've been transmogrified a long time ago.

I think the problem is not in Islam, the problem is in the mind of secularists around the world. Secularists simply cannot get past the fact that Islam is a "comprehensive way of life" and not a mere faith system.

Once secualrists can accept this fact, then understandng between Islam and secularists can be estadblished. As of now, all secularists are insisting that Islam changes itself into a secular mould. As long as this persists, the dichotomy will continue to persists.

19 comments:

Kopi O said...

You talk about ways of life. Let me tell you about some other ways of life, where the worst thing to be is righteous & fixed.

The wrong & corruption you talk about exist in the hearts & interpratations of all man regardless of religion, faith & values, even if it is secularism.

Not all criticisms of Islam are correct, but neither are all defenses of Islam and Muslim behavior. There is much in Islam that is wrong, incorrect, and unethical according to many other people & groups. It's also widely agreed that for the problems with Islam and Islamic violence to be solved, there will have to be changes with in Islam itself.

The only thing constant is change, so why fight it; as the saying goes.

The world will always change & not wait for any school of thought, religion, person, faith, etc. It's the 21st century.

The less fixed one is & there are some principals & values that transcend all ways of life. For example, being open, flexible, responsivle, adaptive, non violent, diplomatic, fair, etc.

Another famous saying: There is no right or wrong!

Anonymous said...

Keep religion between you and your maker! Keep it out of schools, governments, organisations, companies, etc.

Just fight for universal morals, ethics & virtues.

Whats so difficult about that!

Tulang Besi said...

sakumn Kopi O,
I agree with u. In fact, i am very sure that there are mistakes made by Muslims and must be corrected.


But, since Muslims around the world refuse to give in the the invasion of the flawed Secular Liberalism, is that a sin?

Tulang Besi said...

Anonymous said...
Keep religion between you and your maker! Keep it out of schools, governments, organisations, companies, etc.

Just fight for universal morals, ethics & virtues.

Whats so difficult about that!
==========

MY REPLY: You mean values determined by secular liberalists promoted by big corporations bent on making bigger sales for them?

Noo i don't think so

Anonymous said...

No, I meant Universal as in all religions. ways of life & philosophies mainly.

But anyway, I ask the same of you, please present proof of your interpratation of secularism & why it is bad.

Anonymous said...

I think you might have too harsh a view on secularism and people who do not subscribe to Islam. To non-believers, Islam is just one out of the many established schools of religion out there, and even if you argue that Islam is more than just a religion, it's not going to mean anything to people who don't believe in it, is it?

Secularism is there to ensure that things do not go out of hand when the religious fundamentalists (terrorists included) seek to impose their beliefs and effect influence on other people's lives in all available avenues. It helps to keep Islam or some other religion a safe distance from my life without the need for me to be get all confrontational with those who insist on messing around with other people's lives. You don't want Islam to be compromised? I don't want my way of life to be compromised either, on religious grounds for example. So, we need some buffer space between the religious spaces of individuals.

Anonymous said...

Salam bro,
Why do u bother? Yeah, i read the posting "holy smoke, Islamophobes around and abound". Ntah apo apo. Headline also misleading. Dia tu yang Islamophobe, kot?

Tulang Besi said...

Secularim simply means keeping religion and life seperate. In other words, do not allow religion to appear in the public.

To put it simply.

It only means that secularism contradicts Islam.

Anak Perelih said...

they called us as islamic zealot or in other religions' case - religious zealot... but I called them back as SECULAR ZEALOT...

somebody said :
"Secularism is there to ensure that things do not go out of hand when the religious fundamentalists (terrorists included) seek to impose their beliefs and effect influence on other people's lives in all available avenues."

But in Turkey... secular zealots "
seek to impose their beliefs and effect influence on other people's lives in all available avenues"...
like the recent thing happened there.... things is getting out of hand really.. they just don't want to follow their religion's teachings.. and using "secular" as scapegoat only to hide themselves...

Secular was becoming an organized concept in Italy where POpe at that time had huge power... and secular concept was introduced to impose control on the Vatican... they, the secularists tried to look into Islam the way they look into Christianity... which is wrong as different religion had different way of AKIDAH and life concept... In Islam... Islam is the way of life.. but not just a religion....

Anak Perelih said...

You secular zealots... why don't you used google/blooger ID... not just anonymous... as secularists, you should not do like this... what a shame... be fair to the host, tulang besi la...

HumanBeing said...

Lastly, my advice to Helen Ang and anyone out there not liking Islam, please have an open mind. Islam is a system that has existed for the last 1400 years. If it is faulty, then it would have been rejected or destroyed a long time ago.
-----------------------------

It is illogical to assume that Islam itself has no faults just because it had been around for 1400years.

Many faiths (belief without proofs), could be rationally false, but are still practiced today because they have psychological utilities to many people.

At our present age, the brain /mind of the majority of humans are more 'animal' (98.4% ape) than being more human. As such they are very gullible to religion and cults.

Due to cognitive dissonance, it is only natural for the majority (not all) of religious followers to be blind or intentionally ignore any faults in their own religion.

There is nothing wrong with having faith in religion or for the majority to be blind to any falsehoods in their religion.

The problem with Islam is that its teachings directly provide catalysts that would spur the primal tribal instincts of their mentally unstable extremist followers to commit violence and infringe on the rights of others.

Since 911, there had been 11000+ incidence of violence associated with mentally unstable Muslims and the source of their violence can be trace to the Quran, Hadiths and Sunna.
[img]http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/TROP.jpg[/img]
In addition there were many other instances where the rights of human beings had been infringed by extremist Muslims.

These had been pointed out by non-Muslims but the majority of peaceful Muslims had not been able to do anything about the said violence. Rather the silence of the majority of Muslims is indirectly condoning the violence and infringement of the rights of others.

The majority of peaceful Muslims must get together, 'bite the bullet' and come up with corrective actions that would make it impossible for extremists to associate the teaching of Islam with violence and infringing the rights of others.

HumanBeing said...

I think the problem is not in Islam, the problem is in the mind of secularists around the world. Secularists simply cannot get past the fact that Islam is a "comprehensive way of life" and not a mere faith system.
------------------------

I had pointed out earlier where there is a problem with Islam itself and non-Muslims are providing constructing criticisms. Why not address those issues critically.

The human brain has 100 billions neurons, each with 10,000 connections just imaging the number of permutations.

Since 2000 years ago the neural networks and connections in the human brain had been getting more and more complex. Humans on average are getting to be less like apes and be more humane.

It is an insult to humanity to impose a rigid-straighjacket 1400 years old primitive "comprehensive way of life" on progressive humans.

Walking With Crutches said...

You must be one of those whom believe in a Islamic State & implementation of strict hudud & syariah laws. One whom also believes that Islam is superior over all other religions.

You are surely a racist. & you better put that in your blog's name or introduction so people are warned right at the start.

Your kind is the primitive past, it is the kind that must be left to die with evolution. Resisting, but only to a glorios death.

A moderm & liberal Islam will live on, just like a modern & liberal Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity & other religions, where people have the "FREEDOM" to take what they want, think for themselves, be in exploration, read & learn about other religions & be as spiritual or religious as they want & live the life that they want without dictators & facist, the kind you want to put at the top to hide your own insecurities & cries for attention & backwardness.

Tulang Besi said...

walking with crutches says:
"Anonymous Walking With Crutches said...

You must be one of those whom believe in a Islamic State & implementation of strict hudud & syariah laws. One whom also believes that Islam is superior over all other religions.

You are surely a racist. & you better put that in your blog's name or introduction so people are warned right at the start."

MY REPLY: Racists? How can that be when Islam is not a race? It's a way of life.

AS for believing Islam being superior over other religion, i would say that is true but not from a racial perspective.

It is superior because it is faultless and thus far people have failed to prove it's falseness.

In other words, i didn't accept ISlam's superiority blindly. I've compared Islam with all religion and ideologies namely secular liberalism.

At the end of the day, secular liberalism comes in short.

Tulang Besi said...

walking with crutches says:

"
A moderm & liberal Islam will live on, just like a modern & liberal Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity & other religions, where people have the "FREEDOM" to take what they want, think for themselves, be in exploration, read & learn about other religions & be as spiritual or religious as they want & live the life that they want without dictators & facist, the kind you want to put at the top to hide your own insecurities & cries for attention & backwardness."

MY REPLY: What are u talking about. Liberal Islam is already dying.

It's only a matter of time before it is thrown out of the window.

gier said...

Secularism does not contradict Islam. If anything contradicts Islam, it would be atheism, IMO. Then again, atheism contradicts all religions.

Sorry man, this is the first time I've landed on your blog, coming in via Haris'. I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by secular liberalism and why it (as an ideology) comes up short compared to Islam (which is a religion). Arguably, there shouldn't even be a comparison.

Tulang Besi said...

Hello gier,

Welcome to my blog.

I beg to differ from u. In actual fact, secularism contradicts Islam because secularism advocates religion to remain within the personal domain.

Islam on the other hand is a comprehensive way of life, which covers both personal and public domain.

So, naturally, each one of them contradicts the other

Walking With Crutches said...

There is no proof that Fundamentalism Islam will be making a strong & lasting comeback. This is just a cycle that all major religions have gone through. It's the noise before the calm so to say. It's the last ditch for fundamentalist Islamisation which will be crushed in time! On that you can count, as at the end of the day Religion is Spiritual Immaturity & not living consciously! Freedom Forever!

In multicultural Malaysia, which obviously doesn't matter to you, Malays are the dominant & majority Muslims.

I think you are a racist. Racism uses religion as a pawn. & all the brainwashed sheep of religion with the "Us vs. Them" mentality eventually become racist & sectarian. Islam is a very good example & will always be.

If you had really studied & understood all major religions & we're more spiritual than religious, & lived consciously, you wouldn't talk this way.

Organised religion is the real evil in this world & we will put up a fight till the end to "free" the human race from eslavement, fear, brainwashing, sheep & herd mentality & conditionality.

Anonymous said...

I think Singapore went the right way: they keep religious matters out of their schools - means there's no religious classes allowed. That rule counts for all religions. Unfortunately we in Germany are still not on the right track and keep on trying to make our kids good Christians in schools, at the same time denying the fact that almost half of the kids do not have any belive, the other half is a mixed crowd of Christians, Muslims, Buddhist... Why not let the people decide for themselves about their faith in their free time?

Another thing I'd like to ask is, do Muslims not strive for money? In this blog I get the feeling that people of other believes are seen as the unmoral capitalists whereas Muslims don't care for money. I personally never had the impression that there's any difference about that depending on faith.

Ken Tang

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