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Thursday, September 11, 2008

Malays Has Given Up On UMNO, not Islam.

This article is meant to clear up a few mistakes in perception with regards to the recent rejection of Malays of UMNO.


I know the last my last few articles are tough on “liberals” and many are crossed with me. For that I offer u my humblest apology if any one of you is offended. But my intention is clear. I want to see change happen in the Malaysia political landscape.

As UMNO is desperate to remain relevant, they will resort to anything, and their latest move is to invoke “religious sensitivity”. Their “malay supremacy” method is not biting among the Malays. Basically, Malays are not even budge by their call for battle. Perhaps only UMNO hardcores.

But, when it comes to Islam, it has massive potential of becoming a clicking time bomb that will serve UMNO’s interest.

Surprise to Physical Protest to Bar Council Forum

A reader name “alok” commented on my last article:

“Anonymous said...

well, what he is saying is true.

malays resonate strongly with their religion. it is a possible tool for political manipulation.

we don't live in a utopia. we may have our ideals if a better democratic community, but it is the reality today.

and besides, people may have rejected BN, UMNO, but that does not mean they have rejected their racial tendencies. malays rejected UMNO because UMNO has let them down. that is all there is. they may be friendlier towards the other ethnic groups now. i just think they need to take it a little bit more slowly.

alok

September 10, 2008 7:02 AM

Many are shocked at the Bar Council forum protest recently. Part of the surprise is the fact that despite giving up on UMNO, the Malays are still committed to their religion. I would like to take this opportunity to remind all Malaysians to be careful when handling the issue of Islam or Malay Rights at this moment. Don’t make the false assumption that the Malays have forgone their religion just because they just gave UMNO a bloody nose.

That is why I am very distressed when recent with a few anti Islam activities that occurred recently. These anti Islam moves will surely DERAIL all hopes of reforms from happening in our country. Since the Malays are the majority voters in Malaysia, think what will happen if the Malays decided to vote in block and reject Pakatan Rakyat.

Learn from the Tengku Razeleigh Tengkolok Salib Debacle

If anyone whom has suffered from “Malay Sensitivities” of their religion, is none other than Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah. I am sure all of us can recall on the eve of the 1990 elections, the Gagasan Rakyat was ready to deny BN2/3 majority. The Malays were equally divided while the non Malays were going to vote for Gagasan Rakyat en-bloc.

But, Tengku Razaleigh was not patient, despite being advised not to do so by PAS leaders, he took the flight to Kota Kinabalu and was greeted by the PBS entourage. When Ku Li landed in Sabah International Airport, he was wearing a songkok. But, since it’s a Sabah tradition in honoring distinguish guest, his songkok was taken off and replaced by a head gear. It was a Bajau head gear, and the Bajaus in Sabah are 100% Muslims.

It so happens that the emblem on the head gear from a far looks like a Christian cross when in actual fact it is the picture of Tapioca leaves (daun ubi kayu). And the rest is history. Suffice to say, what happened in 2008 could’ve happened in 1990 but because of Ku Li’s impatience and over confidence, it wasn’t so.

One can argue that that was before the blog and internet era. Well, let me point to you some recent examples that has benefited from the internet age:

  1. Teresa Kok accused of asking azan to be slowed down. It’s a lie of course but the lie gain traction because of the internet.
  2. Raja Petra’s contempt of Islam in MToday. If it wasn’t for the internet, people Malays would not know that he is anti Islam
  3. The pig project in Selangor

And many more.

Despite the internet era, Malay and Muslim sensitivites remains the same. Even if the Malays decides to kick UMNO out for good, it does not mean that they will kick Islam out.

Why I Am Hard on the Muslim Liberals

There are many reasons I can cite u. But my biggest gripe is that they will derail the reform movement for their anti Islam activities.

It is clear that Liberals are anti Islam. This is an undeniable and irrefutable fact. They want to reduce Islam to the level of mere faith and rid Islam from the public domain in line with their secular ideology.

So, by siding with the Muslim liberals, u naturally are siding with Anti Islam force. The natural response to anti Islam elements like this almost always aggressive. I have argued over and over again that Bar Council is not interested in finding a solution for the problems of conversion. They are only interested to paint Islam black and they have had a mile long track record for doing that. I stand by my statement and no one can change this fact.

The activities of the liberals will only create tensions in the society and such tension works very well for UMNO. If it not stopped, the so call reform that we are longing for will be derailed and for what? For the agenda of a handful of people who wants to apply Western ideology upon Islam in Malaysia.

Malaysian Muslims do not want to impose Islam on the non-muslims. They just want to apply Islam fully and maintain the sanctity of Islam. Is that wrong?

Tulang Besi

.

53 comments:

Jed Yoong said...

I consider myself a liberal conservative. I am not anti-Islam...anymore.

Dun use RPK as the prime example of liberal-lah.

Tulang Besi said...

Dear Jed Yoong,

I appreciate your reminder. I will refrain from using RPK as a prime example.

In fact, i only used RPK as a "recent example" and never as a prime example.

A

Anonymous said...

well said sheikh! we must contain this so-called liberalist, instead we should promote moderatist view. Long live PR, down to UMNO!

Anonymous said...

Totally misguided. I am a liberal but never anti Islam. Agreed that majority Malays have given up UMNO for what their mismanagement of the nation's wealth and betrayer to the people and religion. Open up your mind and read RPK articles with an open mind and don't be a misanthropist.

Sabziwari said...

"Malays Has Given Up On UMNO, not Islam."

Everytime and all the time.

Malays [or Jawi people, those that have been Islamized by the Hadrami Syeds etc] must think of themselves as Muslims.

Muslims are duty bound to seek and put their trusts ONLy to "ahli 2", not JUST some UMNO or PKR or even PAS leaders.

Those that are truly a Leader [be it political or spiritual leader, as nowadays it is very difficult to see both characteristic in one person].

Strike a balance but True Authentic Scholars have NO place in political affairs save only to remind an dgive wise counsel to the poltiicians.

A True Political leader must always listen and seek wise counsel from the True Scholars.

BTW there is no such a thing as Liberal, Progressive, or Modern Muslim; they are just a bunch of misguided Muslims who may not have the "hidayah" from God.

Anonymous said...

Hey Tulang Besi,

Been following your blog for a while now. I usually agree with what you have to say but not your current stance. Why do you equate liberals with anti-Islam? You claim that Muslims do not want to impose their religion on non-muslims, but yet you say that Islam should be in the public domain as well. How is that possible? Where does that leave the non-muslims in the public domain? Fact is, conservative Islamists find it almost impossible to be inclusive. They have to hole themselves up and discrimminate against others. For instance, can we have a non-muslim prime minister in an Islamic society? Impossible right?

fade0 said...

Spot on my friend.

UMNO was brought down, to preserve the santity of Islam.

Malays will stop at nothing in the name of Islam, even PR.

Anonymous said...

Dear Tulang Besi,
I thank you for your website and your clear stand and understanding on many issues affecting malaysians on the whole and muslims specifically. I wish and pray for a just and peaceful Malaysia for all Malaysians where the beauty of islam can be experience by everyone not only muslims. Please continue with what you are doing. Inshaallah, truth and logic will prevail eventually.

Bolbol

Tulang Besi said...

Anon says:

"Why do you equate liberals with anti-Islam? "

Answer:Because at the heart of their cause is secularism. Secularism is against Islam by definition.



"You claim that Muslims do not want to impose their religion on non-muslims, but yet you say that Islam should be in the public domain as well. How is that possible?"


Answer: I mean Muslim public domain.

Dr Su said...

What Tulang Besi says has a lot of truth in it. His reasons for coming down hard on minority views verses mainstream Islam views is spot on.
Having said that, I do not think all liberals are anti Islam and even the Bar Council is probably seen as anti Islam because they try to deal with issues that involved people 'trapped' by some legislation pertaining to Islam. Having said that , I personally experienced anti Muslim sentiment among some of those who attend Bar Council events which means it serves as a platform and attracts anti Islam elements in Malaysian society.

teohjitkhiam said...

Tulang Besi, if I may, I would very much prefer secularism. At least I can question man-made laws or rulings which I consider to be unfair or biased, and all without fear or favor. But laws deemed ordained by the divine? I risked a lynching by a mob, for sure.

Nevertheless, if PAS can (and has in Kelantan) prove itself to be capable of dispensing justice and good governance to both Muslims and Non-Muslims alike at the Federal level, I would be more than happy to give my whole-hearted support to TGNA or other similar PAS luminaries as the next PM of Malaysia. This does not mean I support Shariah or Hudud or Qizas, but rather for a just and good governance in the name of Islam.

Just my two cents.

bexe said...

All Semitic (Arab) religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam)teaches hate. They all have "moral" grounds to hate people that are different than them.Think about it.

Al-Jabr said...

I am totally in agreement with the comment that there are no such thing as Liberals, Progressive, Moden Muslims. Muslims are Muslims. Islam is Islam, period. There is no need to put a label after or before the word Islam.
And for Anonymous who posted the question; "For instance, can we have a non-muslim prime minister in an Islamic society? Impossible right?".
Ever ask the question, Can we have an elected Muslim PM in a non-Islamic Society?. Just check on the reactions of some Americans when there was rumour that Barack Obama was a Muslim.
(It is always wiser to look at the overall picture before coming to a conclusion)
Lets work together to build a peacefull and prosperous Malaysia for us, our children and their children.

casper c said...

Tulang Besi - you make assumptions to condemn others ie liberal equates anti-Islam ! Don't you realised that by itself is inflamatory if not dangerous !!!!

On a recent visit to London, the front page of a tabloid had the headlines - Honour Killing Family Pleas Innocence.

A Bangladeshi family - father, mother, uncle and son were in court to face charges of 1st degree murder. There's no denying all three men were responsible for pinning and slitting the throat of the victim in the most cruel of manner.

Lawyer brought forth a defense that runs contrary to present day Criminal Code by citing Syariah Law.

Sitting judge saw differently, held all three culpable.

On the same trip, I visited Goodwood - a day out to take in the horses.

Sultan of Pahang's Indraputra Stable had a runner that afternoon. I liked the runner, had some each way and the horse won on a canter(Daulat Tuanku - good win on a fine specimen with jockey much to be credited).

Tell me tulang, are you going to impose your sense of Islam and haul HM the Sultan off to face whatever Syariah jurisdiction.

Then again why stop there - the Emir of Dubai(Godolphin Stable - one of the biggest racing operations both sides of the Atlantic) too had a few runners all over UK, and while you are at it - the brother to present day Ruler of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia just blew over a million sterling for a horse that turned out to be a lemon.

I would like to see you 'take action' and see if you get within 10 yards of my fellow horsemen.

Silap-silap kena tembak ooiii tulang besi.

And lastly, how do you reconcile the fact that many Turkish Muslims enjoy an anise flavour liquer being a favourite tipple with their meals. Or that Muslim dominant satelite States of the former USSR equally enjoy their vodka as much as a full blooded Russians.

As it is, the differences are out there tulang. Don't think the world needs to be further clouded with your prevailing standards - certainly not in present day M'sia.

Last time I checked, ours is a secular Constitution but if you insist on maintaining a rigid practice, life at the borders of Afghanistan/Pakistan would be more your cup of tea.

Here again, do beware the intermix of tribal tradition with that of Islam - silap-silap kena tembak .

Regards tulang besi and all

Anonymous said...

look, non muslim dont care about the muslim married 4 wives or 40 wives. they dont really care about islam. Its really non of our business. but when issues like conversion and body snatching happened its really our business. how can u say its anti islam when it affects our life and rights(it seems so one sided)? so how can u say the bar council is anti islam when its trying to find a solution? let it have it say if u dont agree then u can suggest something else? whats the big deal? it seems odd malaysia muslim are so over protective of their religion. dont always try to create imaginative enemies of islam " us versus them" mentality. there are nobody going to detroy islam at least not in malaysia. like i said before we dont care

Anonymous said...

Yes... the Malays have given up on UMNO.
Well... the Chinese have also given up on Gerakan & MCA.
So as the Indians on MIC.......!

If we give up on the politions, its ok. They are the ones that always, always, always create dramas that gets the highest watched ratings......!

We... the rakyat Malaysia are smarter than them.
The Malays, Indians, Chinese, Eurasians, Indonesians, Germans, Sarawakians, Sahabans, Australians, many more are still my friends....

Not forgetting the Chindians, Melayu Mat Salehs, Chinese Mat Salehs, Melayu Indians, many more anak campur that are also my friends....

What say you.................. ?

Anonymous said...

you said' Malaysian Muslims do not want to impose Islam on the non-muslims. They just want to apply Islam fully and maintain the sanctity of Islam. Is that wrong?'

You do impose on us at school,work and our daily life. Where does it leave us when we have to live with it? We suffer silently most of the times due to no choice:(
Everytime it's just about you guys being the special human beings God has created that deserves priveleges and special treatment due to your race and religion. How can you show or tell you are fair towards us? gosh you guys dont even respect us as human beings . we are so jijik to be friends with , we are so jijik to be at the same table to eat just because we are NOT of ur religion.
As I write sadness fills me up. APologies if my comments has hurt ur feelings.

Anonymous said...

Dear TB aka RC,

In the days of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh, these liberals were termed MUNAFIK. They have this lingering doubt deep inside their hearts about this deen.

Troubadour

Anonymous said...

hai...
nk tanya, MT kena block lg ker? x leh nk msk dr tadi..
Tolong respond yer sesapa yg tau..
TQ

Sathyaseelan said...

Except for TB's support of death to apostates, I have not found anything that I am seriously against.

I have been reading the articles for months. Despite not always being in agreement (being Hindu, I guess it is hard to), I appreciate the openness of Tulang Besi.

Anyway, I feel RPK, Tulang Besi and a few others are the (needed) different sides of the same project, which is to bring democracy and freedom to Malaysia.

I don't know what are the intentions of Bar Council, etc but I agree this is not the time. What the hell anyone can achieve with BN in power?

tulang titanium said...

tulang besi, from your write-up, i can sense insecurity in you. that's a clear sign of weakness.

kah,kah,kah you should change your nick to 'tulang kapur' lah dude, that would fits you better....kah,kah,kah

race and religion must play no role in politic - and that's true reform in Malaysia's politic!

don't worry tulang besi, there will be more than enough space for orthodox like you. The only difference is,nobody can force their orthodoxy onto others.

That's the way forward for better future.

Anonymous said...

RPK a liberal and 'anti-islam'?
Of the the articles that I have read written by him, the only people I see that he is 'anti' are the hypocites who do not practise what they preach.
And there are many hypocrites in Malaysia who pray 5 times a day, and religiously abiding what is expecting of them in a riualistic way.
The likes of Ahmad Ismail who profess to be muslim and fight to defend his religion, and yet in the holy month,sprewn poison from his mouth which is full of hatred and anger against others whose only sin is born not of his colour.
Neither was he ashamed of the fact that he was under the glare of international media.
While not many would agree with what he said, but the fact remains that the action of a few such as this is enough to tarnish the image of the whole nation full of muslims whom he claimed to present.
Yet many ask why the world has such neagtive perceptions of Islam?
You call talk until the cow come home of how Islam is a beautiful religion, but yet in many ways the deed of a few is enough to paint a black picture of your religion.
Like it or not, is it people like RPK who is seen as a true defender of what he believes.

Anonymous said...

Religions contain noble principles to guide the people to a humane and peaceful path in their lives, especially during those chaostic times in history. However when religions become a tool for politics, their misuse by the politicians can create unrest among the people. Is this what religion is all about? There are many regions in the world suffering from wars due to the fight in the name of religion. Why are those politicians making use of religion to get the power to rule over their people but in the process bring so much suffering to the majority of the citizens.

Anonymous said...

i respect RPK, and sometimes his views are quite an eye opener.

but when he divulge into the matter of religion, he shows his inefficiency in religious knowledge and understanding.

there is an arabic saying that goes
"ilmu tanpa amal adalah sia-sia,
amal tanpa ilmu adalah kegilaan"

in Islam it is a compulsion for all of its followers to study, especially when it comes to the matter of religion. everything in Islam is derived from Alquran and Hadis and there are specific methods to interpret them. one don't just pickup a translation, read and claim to understand it. one has to get accredited by a scholarly teacher.

in islam, the further u are from the knowledge, the further u are from the truth. the further u are from the truth the more zalim u are towards urself and others.

there is a reason liberalists are considered to carry a diluted content of Islam. there is a reason RPK msgs when it comes to religion gets rejected. it all comes down to how much study they have done into learning the methods of syariah.

this is an endless debate, but i see it as necessary because it is progressive. afterall, hidayah is Allah's blessings. one recieves His blessings if He wills it.

for the moment, let's just respect each other. truth, in human perspective is relative. what is the point fighting tooth and nail against others just to prove that they are wrong and we are right. after all in time being we might be proven wrong.

alok

Nostradamus said...

A Malaysian Time Clock Slowly Clicking towards 16 September!
---------------------------------

Tick, Tock! Tick, Tock! Tick Tock!

Inbetween, spare parts and batteries still insufficient in case it stop.

Some try to move it faster by 15 minutes, some by 30 minutes.

Nobody thought of moving it backwards. I wonder Why?

continue at http://patek1472.wordpress.com

Antares said...

My mind has long been cleared of religious viruses implanted by our Makers to control us through superstition. There's no dogma on earth I can take too seriously - but I do have an open heart and a great depth of empathy. While I shake my head at what you're saying, my heart tells me you're an honest, decent person - so I'm inclined to respect your views, no matter how different than my own. Also, I value the political insights you share. Thanks for your great contributions to a more truthful Malaysia! I think I've already blogrolled you (will check and make sure :-)

Tulang ikan said...

Keep it up TBesi. The non muslim need to understand - Body snatching, child religion, conversion etc is where we draw the line. Like it or not, it will never, not now, not then, not ever, be it Pakatan rakyat or Bn or what not the situation will change.Its the sanctity of Islam that we are willing to die for.

amoker said...

you should read the recent posting by Rocky then where he ask us to uphold the constitution. Is he then a liberal?

I say, this is a stretch too far.All these types of labelling are not good for discussion or for Malaysia.

Nostradamus said...

A Malaysian Time Clock Slowly Clicking towards 16 September!
----------------------------------

Tick, Tock! Tick, Tock! Tick Tock!

Inbetween, spare parts and batteries still insufficient in case it stop.

Some try to move it faster by 15 minutes, some by 30 minutes.

Nobody thought of moving it backwards. I wonder Why?

continue at http://patek1472.wordpress.com

Anonymous said...

The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by Homo Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not receive this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history."
-- Robert Heinlein

casper c said...

Anon, try this for MT link

http://mt.m2day.org/2008/

You should be able to get through with no problems.

Silent Reader said...

Thank you Tulang Besi for this post.

Most of the comments against this issue, is simply a matter of confusion, which as for a non-Muslim is very much understood but for a Muslim, pitiful as they themselves take their own religion for granted.

Islam is a religion, yes, teachings and laws come from a divine entity. But if studied (an undertaking that might not even complete in a lifetime, mind you), is complete in all aspect of life. The interpretations of Islam, is however done by HUMAN, and the execution is, again HUMAN. Even in Islam, it is said that there are no perfect human beings, save Prophet Muhammad and we are all imperfect in one way or another, regardless of how some might in denial of that fact.

Islam does not HATE. Those who do hate are no less HUMAN in err. The rationale is simple, if one professes love to Islam, and love for Allah, then one must love all that Allah has created, creatures and objects alike. But what is hated is the negative elements and actions (greediness, corruption, lies, etc.). I have many non-Muslim friends, some even better than me in terms of their personality, in fact because of them I am sometimes ashamed and remind myself to be a better muslim. So how can you hate a good creation of Allah simply for being a non-Muslim?

The HUMAN interpretations of Islam, have created many streams, that is accepted as the non-definite clauses in the Quran need further clarity from the learned Scholars (just as buildings should only be built by qualified engineers). But the underlying principle should never ever differ, especially on the obvious rulings (hukum), which is where RPK's article faces criticism. Simply because of not wanting to subject women to covering their heads, the ruling cannot be re-defined. Covering up is the law, full stop. Follow or not, that is your choice, and no it doesn't guarantee that you are the better person.

Like the legal system, there are several levels of the Islamic law as well, hence we (human) can't be arresting everyone for breaking Allah's law but leave it for the court in Hereafter (so its a personal choice - do the crime if you're willing to do the time). Only laws which adversely affect the community are present in our Syariah law. And there is a rationale behind each and every one, something which one could understand if he really studies it with an open mind (unlike the soon-to-be tabled Bill which is so obviously full of flaws).

And in the Islamic law, concept of society and economy, no other non-muslim or religion should be oppressed, that is simply wrong! So if any Malay/Muslim says that, then that is just not what Allah says and it is not Islam.

So please, its not about a person's religion, its about the person.

And we don't hate you for not understanding Islam.

Anonymous said...

Dear Tulang Besi,

The liberal movement is the same everywhere, portraying religion negatively and branding those who pracise religion as conservatives. Look at what is happening to Sarah Palin in the US presidential elections, the media is trying to make out that she is a religious bigot.I am a Catholic Chinese and I agree that our religious principles should not be confined to just the faith area of our lives but that they should help us to make informed decisions for e.g in how we vote, work, invest etc. I say good for our Malay friends that you know how to differentiate Islam from UMNO. That's using your principles to make a wise decision. Peace be with you all.

BareSheen said...

Dear Tulang Besi,

2 comments -

1. You said "....Bar Council is not interested in finding a solution...." That is an unfair and sweeping statement. An insult to fair minded lawyers. You are entitle to your opinion but they must be well argued. Making sweeping one-liner statement like that is not helping anyone.

2. You said "Malaysian Muslims do not want to impose Islam on the non-muslims. They just want to apply Islam fully and maintain the sanctity of Islam. Is that wrong?" No, it is not wrong. Question is, and this is a very important question - how do you propose to apply this "fully"?

You did not say it outright but I think you are clearly suggesting that Islam be applied fully in all spheres of life, both private and public.

I would contest that because mixing politics with religion is explosive. Please look at the world and look back at history. Letting religion rule public spheres will only see bloodshed.

Why?

Because it discourages rational debates and discussions of issues, even sensitive issues.

I mean, when one says "Because god says so" - what else is there to discuss?

So slowly but surely all discussions will stop. More and more issues will be deemed sensitive.

And what happens? Tyranny sets in. Fear creeps in.

Death of society will surely ensue.

I have read enough of history to know this will surely occur.

Anonymous said...

Hi Iron-Bones

U refer to the Khinzir rearing project in Selangor as a Pakatan Rakyat project, BUT wasnt it a UMNO-BN project. Khir Toyo & the BN EXCO approved it whilst they were in office. They were goin to make a lot of money playing a middle man role. But when they lost the elections, and when the project was not killed off by the new Selangor state government, they made noise.

The reason is simple. They no longer will be in the middle to make money.

But it was an UMNO project, approved by my mother's dentist from Kajang.

Although these days he is getting involved with creative writing.

BobSam

Mag M said...

Dear Tulang Besi
We have nothing against Islam or anyone practicing it. Everyone should be free to practice what they like. I am a liberal but not anti Islam or any religion. Liberal in the sense that religion and politics should not mix. People, because of their greed for power and other things will use religion for their own benefits in politics or anything. Another thing that might arise from mixing religion with politics is that what is wrong for one religion might be okay for another. Even if all religions say it is a sin like gambling and drinking, it still should not be forced upon anyone, especially on people of another faith as we value our freedom of choice. Let us be answerable to our maker or not to humans on earth. Look at how many so called religious leaders of all faiths, commit sins like rape and molesting their charges. Humans are not perfect and therefore should not be the ones who judge us.

Other problems like some over zealous so called religious representatives might also abuse their power. All this cannot be prevented because we are dealing with humans.

With all this in mind, it does make the non-muslims uncomfortable when religion and politics mix as somehow, someday, someone irresponsible or unreasonable will try to impose their believes on others.

I am a Christian and I see my kind doing the same things too sometimes. We get carried away.

BTW, as far as RPK is concerned, I don't see any of his articles as being anti-Islam. His statements attack only those who are hypocrites. I think he is trying to raise awareness in each of us that we shouldn't be hypocrites and should do good as our religion teaches us. You need to read and understand what he is trying to say.

Anyway, it is good for everyone to discuss and try to understand each other with an open mind. Keep it up.

http://malgal128.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

Assalamualaikum,

Dear Abdul Rahman Talib a.k.a. Rahman Celcom a.k.a. Cabearth a.k.a. Anti Anti-Hadith a.k.a. Tulang Besi.

Please read this article:

Why I am a liberal written by Wan Saiful Wan Jan

Selongsong.Pencucuh

smoking gun said...

Dear Tulang Besi,
I beg to differ. I'm a liberal but that doesn't make me anti-Islam. Trouble is, I just can't help but worry when I hear things like:

- Women shouldn't wear lipstick or high heels.
- Prayer attendance will be taken into consideration when promoting Govt. servants (whatever happened to simply encouraging professional excellence - work is worship remember? And where would this leave non-Muslim employees?)

- No concerts to be allowed apart from those "approved" - seems like the only ones approved will be so insipid, the audience will turn to "immoral" activities from sheer boredom.

As for religion being prominently in the public domain, for thousands of years this was indeed the case in western countries. They then found out the hard way how dangerous it was to have self-serving politicians wielding infinite power from posing as "representatives of Divine Will".

Recent events have made it quite clear that politicians are not above using religion as a tool to further their dubious agenda. (Sumpah-menyumpah anyone?). Should we then declare ourselves a theocracy so that henceforth anyone who raises a voice against an unjust leader can conveniently be branded anti-Islam and violently silenced?

The anti-secularists are missing the point - while secularism may not elevate any particular faith system, it equally oppresses none. More importantly it is the best form of protection against machiavellian politicians who will gladly bludgeon all civil liberties by "divine decree" just to stay in power.

I'm hard-pressed to name an Islamic State today that fills me with optimism - precisely for the reasons mentioned above and more. I have no issues with Muslims wanting to live in a more Islamic environment but its a slippery slope towards talibanisation once power is placed in the hands of men of god. And then everyone suffers, the country's economy tanks, people suffer more from the resulting poverty...QED

The initial ideals that inspired our constitution were sound and yes, Islamic. The principles of good governance were spelt out (fully in accordance with universal religious principles and secular ones too). Islam was clearly given prominence as the state religion. The problem is not that Malaysia is a secular state or an Islamic state. The problem is our recent leaders have betrayed the spirit of the constitution leaving us ALL dissatisfied, Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Tell me I'm wrong TB.

sabretooth said...

I respect you for standing up for what is right. RPK has a lot of fans who thinks that everything he says is the gospel truth. He should not be making statements about subjects in which he has no authority upon. He is hiding behind the clause "Amar maaruf Nahi mungkar" but he forgot that it is also applicable against him.

May Allah bless you!

TeohZY said...

I absolutely agree with what you said. Which one do I want? Islamic state with Islamic laws, but with religious freedom and at the same time fairness and equality to non-Muslims; or Ketuanan Menantu/Melayu, corruption, racism, nepotism, incompetence, which result in the country being divided and non-bumis being descriminated? As a Malaysian chinese, it is really an easy choice for me to make. Don't worry, real PR supporters like me only want what is the best for the country. Non-malay version of UMNOs are not real PR supporters.

pondok said...

TB,
The Liberal tag is a misnomer IMHO. They claim to be liberal, but what so liberal about these losers? Aren't they the extremists of secularism?

Anyway for the sake of identification, we can call them Liberal lah, although I would rather call them munafik . (yes, include RPK!!!).

Just wanna let you know, in my recent mini discussion with Sheikh Imran Hossein - we are already in the era of Dajjal and Gog/Magog. In these last days of the world, we are not being challenged by the Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism and what not. Those are the old order of corrupted way of life which we have won over many hundred years ago. The real challenge now is against the Dajjalism.

So what does Dajjal bring to us? Dajjal and his army of Gog/Magog are the torch bearer of secularism. Secularism is the new order for destructive life and the new challenge that we will however eventually triumph.

True enough what Rasulullah has said, many so-called Muslims of the last days will be deceived by Dajjal. These Liberals (RPK included) are among those deceived.

We need to save them.

tulang titanium said...

save them my foot!

i think this guy who call himself 'pondok' must have never been out of his pondok.

yo,brader 'pondok', why don't you come out of your pondok world and take a look at the world from a bigger viewpoint.

this one is another sad case of dumb and blind orthodoxy. no different from tulang besi.

save yourself first la dude before thinking about saving others.

Anonymous said...

no!! i am not given up on UMNO but i'm dissappointed with malay in malaysia.they were not strong inside and outside!! too bad!! ulama' is not funtional at all!!

Anonymous said...

"melayu mudah lupa" & sentiasa ketinggalan di belakang bangsa seperti china & india.. sejarah membuktikan sglnya. jangan berlagak hebat untuk bersaing dengan mereka jika melayu belum maju.tidak pada kesamarataan dan tidak pada malaysian malaysia. semua itu hanya propaganda pendatang untuk menguasai tanah air bangsa melayu!! ekonomi,akademi,politikal,mindset,tactical,kelicikan..mereka menguasai semuanya.melayu belum smpai thp itu.

Anonymous said...

dah nyata zaman kejatuhan islam semakin jelas!! bangsa islam eropah pernah tersungkur,apatahlagi bangsa melayu yg tlalu lemah ini.seperti makan kacangje.. jk tidak bersatu kemana melayu hndk tuju? jgn smpai tergadai tanah dan maruah.pertahankan tanah kita.itu shj yg kita ada!!

Anonymous said...

masih ramai lg melayu yg buta dalam celik.tidak kira yg alim,prof, pakar,..sebhgian mereka tidak nmpak propaganda bangsa lain untuk menjatuhkan melayu atas tiket keadilan&kesamarataan. bumiputra ttp hanya untuk bputra.itu fakta!! hidup ahmad!!ramai myokong dbelakang anda!!

Anonymous said...

jgn jd spt bumiputera d singapura,amerika,latin,afrika,australia..mereka hanya melukut di tepi gantang.hny diberi gula2 mcm bdk ingusan untuk mjaga hati mereka!! melayu,ingatlah!!! no malaysian malaysia!!

Anonymous said...

wholesomely it is healthy that discourses the likes of these that are curre
ntly as yet energetically participated in blogs such as tulang besi's. It goes to show that we all have our opinions and they should not be too dogmatic or so that they seem to be.The sixteenth oh the sixteenth or the twentieth perhaps.almighty God please allow it to come to be. We are all verily excited that we are able to luxuriate in a mature democracy that what this beautiful country should rightly be. Insyaallah2!

besi buruk

Anonymous said...

Dear Tulang Besi,

Keep up the good dakwah you are doing, Don't let the munafiqun drag you down. Depa ni tak paham pasal islam, Born muslim aje but non practising kot tu yang gelap hati. Fundamental things in islam pun tak faham. Anyway Bro keep up the good work. Semoga Allah Melindungi hambaNYA dari Neraka jahanam. AMIN.

Anonymous said...

But laws deemed ordained by the divine? I risked a lynching by a mob, for sure.
-----------------------------------

Yoohoo mate..laws,forces come frm the divine,mate..its just that folks "cant see it,feel it"..once,u "open up",all doubts fade away..buddy,what do u think of the latest big bang test @CERN..u think it will work?;-)

Actually..hahaha..Islam as a religion might fade away,like all religions..hindu,christianty,judaismm,whatever ism..but ISLAMIC LAWS,DIVINE LAWS as mentioned in t he holy quran,vedas..is there forever..it's deathless..brudders n sister..in fact..hehe..its already in us..its everywhere..i am willing to debate wit anyone on this issue..peace out..:-)

Anonymous said...

"For to the supramentalised seeing the material world and space and material objects cease to be material in the sense in which we now on the strength of the sole evidence of our limited physical organss...receive(them);..they appear and are seen as Spirit itself in a form of itself and a conscious extention..global vision,undivided vision,and also eternal vision.It is the conquest of time.If the overmind consciousness saw"large extentions of space and time",the supramental envelops the three times:it links past,present, and future in their indivisible connections,in a single contininuos map of knowledge,side by side..All time is one body,Space a single book.."(Sri Aurobindo)

He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them.(Ayat al Kursi;The Throne Verse)

It sia movement which is a kind of eternalVibration,with neither beginning nor end.It is something that is from all eternity,andthere is no division of time;it is only when it is projected on a screenthat it begins to take on the division of time;but one caanot speak of a second,one cannot speak of a moment..it is very difficult to explain.One has not even the time to perceive it when when it is already not there..something without limits,without beginning,without end,which is a movement so complete,total and constant,constant,that to any perception,it gives the feeling of perfect immobility.It is absolutely indescribable,but it is this which is the Origin and the Support of he whole terrestrial evolution..And I have noticed that in that state of consciousness the Movement exceeds the force or the power whih concentrates the cells to make of them an individual form"(THE MOTHER OF SABDA)

"Consider, for instance, some of the Quranic references to God's Being - Being indefinable, infinite in time and space, and utterly beyond any creature's comprehension. Far from being able to imagine Him, we can only realize what He is not: namely, not limited in either time or space, not definable in terms of comparison, and not to be comprised within any category of human thought. Hence, only very generalized metaphors can convey to us, though most inadequately, the idea of His existence and activity."

From The Message of The Quran

Translated and Explained by Muhammad Asad



SYMBOLISM AND ALLEGORY IN THE QUR'AN

Pembela Malaysia said...

Religion is a matter between God and an individual. That is why it is called a belief, not law. It is a matter of personal choice, at a very personal level. It should be void of external interference, and a person should be able to practice his belief in any way he deems fit, without judgement from anyone/anything less than divine, because ultimately when God passes judgement, He passes judgement based on you and your actions alone, nothing else.

Therefore how can we choose to be governed by a theocratic government system as opposed to a secular system? With today's globalisation one must be aware of the infinite differences there are between human beings, may it be religion, tradition or culture etc. By imposing a theocratic rule of law, it effectively curbs the freedom of millions of individuals to practice each of their own beliefs, a freedom of which is fundamental in any religion.

No one is against Islam, and non-Muslim Malaysians have long accepted it as the official religion of the country, there is no question about that. But when you hear sensitive remarks passed against the religion, you should probably consider the consequences of your religious practices which sometimes onerously affects non-Muslims in the country. Tolerance is, after all, reciprocal. Like the saying, it takes two hands to clap.

Connie said...

I was imposed an islamic way of life when I was 15 years old while serving as a student military cadets.

I was asked to wear a songkok and made to made Quran prayers in the Army Camp in front of the Agung, although I am not willing but who are their to let me voice my discomfirt.

When I was 11 years old I was told by my teachers there is only one holy places on earth, there is only the The Haj in middle east. As far as what I had learn there are many holy places for different religion.

So this what you call of making muslim the public domain, and making all others second class citizen if we are not a muslim.

Think before you comment. It hurts been label as anti-muslim by people who first discriminate us.

And continue to do so with unfair state policies.

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