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Thursday, October 2, 2008

Perobohan Kuil di Ampang Tampak Seperti Provokasi UMNO

Heboh apabila perobohan kuil di Ampang masuk ke dada media perdana. Berbagai-bagai reaksi dan respon kita telah amati dan perhati. Kerajaan Negeri Selangor telah mengambil beberapa tindakan kepada Timbalan Yang Dipertua Majlis Perbandaraan Ampang Jaya (MPAJ), Abdul Hamid Hussain

Semua ahli PAS patut mempersoalkan beberapa perkara yang berkaitan dengan perobohan "kuil" tersebut:

a. Mengapa MPAJ mengambil tindakan tersebut sedangkan "kuil" tersebut terletak di tanah milik Jabatan Perhutanan Negeri? Sepatutnya kuil tersebut dirobohkan oleh pihak Jabatan Perhutanan Negeri dan bukannya MPAJ? Khabarnya kedudukan kuil tersebut pun tersorok dan jauh dari manusia ramai.

b. Kenapa dipilih waktu yang sangat mulia kepada umat Islam untuk perobohan tersebut, yakni di bulan Puasa? Adakah mereka hendak mengambil peluang di waktu iman para umat Islam berada di tahap yang tinggi?

c. Pihak MPAJ sudah maklum akan polisi kerajaan negeri yang baru, yakni "tiada tempat sembahan (tidak kira surau, tokong, kuil, gereja dsbnya) boleh dirobohkan melainkan sudah ada tempat lain yang sesuai untuk digantikan tempat tersebut". Mengapa pihak MPAJ dengan jelas melanggar polisi tersebut.

d. Mengapa pihak MPAJ tidak melibatkan rakyat tempatan serta ahli2 Majlis yang beragama Hindu di dalam menyelesaikan masaalah ini sekiranya benar-benar termpat tersebut perlu dirobohkan.

e. Kita tidak pula diberitahu wujud rungutan serta permintaan dari penduduk tempatan terhadap kuil tersebut yang memerlukan kuil tersebut dirobohkan. Misalnya, sekiranya kuil tersebut menyebabkan kesesakan lalulintas, atau terlalu hampir dengan surau atau masjid, atau hampir dengan sekolah atau rumah penduduk tempatan. Sekiranya wujud permintaan yang jelas dari penduduk tempatan pun, ianya masih boleh dilakukan dengan persetujuan penganut-penganut Hindu setempat tanpa menyebabkan kemarahan mereka.

f. Islam tidak mengajar umatnya merobohkan rumah ibadat agama lain. Kalau kita merantau ke seluruh dunia ISlam sekalipun masih wujud bekas2 tempat-tempat ibadah penduduk setempat yang telah masuk ISlam dibiarkan begitu sahaja. Misalnya di Afghanistan masih wujud kuil2 dan patung2 Buddha di seluruh Afghanistan. Kawan saya yang beragama Buddha memberitahu saya bahawa patung Buddha di Afghanistan adalah unik berbanding seluruh dunia kerana ianya memakai topi.

(Tindakan Taliban meruntuhkan patung Buddha dahulu pun bukan kerana mereka marah dengan kuil tersebut tetapi marah kepada United Nations yang mahu berbelanja wang untuk menjaga patung tersebut tetapi tidak mahu berbelanja wang untuk menyelamatkan rakyat Afghanistan yang sewaktu itu menderita kerana kemarau panjang. Sekiranya United Nations tidak bersikap kurang ajar, nescaya Taliban tidak akan meruntuhkan patung2 tersebut).

g. Harus diingat kakitangan kerajaan Negeri Selangor ini masih ramai yang totok UMNO. Ramai yang naik pangkat bukan kerana mereka layak tetapi kerana kekuatan mereka di dalam menyokong UMNO.

Ertinya tidak mustahil perkara ini dilakukan atas dasar untuk menyebabkan perasaan tidak senang hati dan benci sesama Pakatan Rakyat di Selangor.

Tulang Besi

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

Sumber dalaman menyebut ada usaha-usaha sedang dilakukan melalui kakitangan kerajaan negeri untuk meruntuhkan kerajaan PR bukan shj dalam isu Kuil tetapi banyak isu pada masa depan....

Anonymous said...

i used to walk there, what amazed me is the temple located dp inside the jungle...no houses...just some wild monkeys, how can MPAJ can located the temple...maybe there is complain from the monkeys to MPAJ?

Anonymous said...

Write in English please... you pussy!

& stop defending the Taliban!

See how the Dhimmi were treated in past Islamic states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

The Muslim answer to any problem is always 'more Islam', which of course flies in the face of 14 centuries of barbarism and backwardness in the name of Allah.

In truth, the more Islamic a country is, the more retrograde it becomes, and the more hellish and onerous life becomes for the unfortunate denizens of such places.

The very definition of insanity is attempting the same dysfunctional methods (i.e. Sharia and Islam) to solve problems and expecting different results.

Tulang Besi said...

Anon October 2, 2008 3:35 PM,

If you're not a "pussy" why don't u give us all your name?

And what's the matter, can't u handle a little bit of truth?

The Taliban did nothing wrong except they refuse to adopt Western imperialism.

They may not be rich but they were one of the few nations in the world without a national debt/.

Now with the American/Haliburton agent agent Karzai in power, Afghanistan has entered the realm of all the other muslim nation of the world and will have to spend 50% of their future GDP paying back the interest of the debt they owe to the West.

HAhahahaha it's naive push-over kinds like you that makes the Muslim world lack behind the West forever.

We have a name for people like you, and it's call Uncle Tom.

Tulang Besi said...

Anon Uncle Tom writes:

"
See how the Dhimmi were treated in past Islamic states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi
"

REPLY: Errr, have you read the yusuf Qardhawi explanation of Dhimmi???

Most of what is written in the wilkepedia above are secluded or isolated incidence and it is not the rule rather exception.

Please get your facts straight.

oh funny, the non muslims in Afghanistan had no complaint about the Taliban rule.

Tulang Besi said...

anon the Uncle Tom says:

"The Muslim answer to any problem is always 'more Islam', which of course flies in the face of 14 centuries of barbarism and backwardness in the name of Allah."

REPLY: Ekkkk, wrong again, big time. No such thing.

Only empty lies by desperate liberals.

The so call 'backwardness and barbarism for 14 centuries" only exists in the imagination of Uncle Tom like Anon October 2, 2008 3:35 PM.

To any credible historian, such a claim is worth less than a bubble gun wrapper.

Anonymous said...

ur supporting the taliban?!

read dis n tell me if u still support them..

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2008/09/15/taliban-cut-off-afghan-teacher-s-ears-as-punishment.html

Anonymous said...

What's wrong with you guys?. This is Malaysia. You are not in U.S or Afghnistan. I have lots of muslim/malay or muslim/non-malay and chinese and India. In my home town, we live in harmony. No religion in this world teaches us about violence, discrimination and racism. All these shits are from religion fanatic or those who are using religion to gain power and influence.Islam or Christian or Buddhism or Hidusm does not teach any of these.

Anonymous said...

------------------------------------
anon October 2, 2008 3:35 PM says
Write in English please... you pussy!

& stop defending the Taliban!

See how the Dhimmi were treated in past Islamic states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

------------------------------------
anon 3:35 PM,

You don't have to resort to
name calling.

Comparison to Taliban is grossly unfair,look at the history of the Afghan people and their nation and the histoy of Malaysian people and the Malaysian nation.

Study the history of foreign intervention in each country, then and now. Of imposing alien values to local, indigenous peoples.

We in Malaysia are trying to work out a progressive solution to community and nation building.

Each situation/context is uniquqe to itself. One cannot generalise, or you'll be over-simplistic and dead wrong in your assessment.

-salam means peace

Anonymous said...

THis is Malaysia. So, you can write in any language you like. English or Malay or Chinese, it will not make you superior or inferior. We are all Malaysia, we are unique. In the old days, malay, chinese and indian stay in one place or attend one school or mix in one group and above all they live in harmony. As long as no extremist at work, everthing is O.K. The problem starts when we have race or religion extremist. No religion will teach you to discrimate or treat other un-fairly.There are lots of story of what extremist muslim had done but we forget there are other religion extremist too. There are christian extremist too in U.S or Hindu extremist in India, all this people do not respect human life or justice. In Malaysia, we are lucky to have people like Tok Guru Nik Aziz to show us by his action and words what is actually a truth muslim is all about. Lastly, we Malaysia better get our act together and be united to face the challenge from outside, for the sake of our children. Any government that is not base on accounbility, fair and justice must go.

Anonymous said...

Nothing wrong writing in Malay. My generation of Indians and Chinese, we read and write Malay very well.In fact, better then malays.

Anonymous said...

Tolonglah jangan menuduh orang lain jika kita tak pasti, berhentilah salahkan orang lain jika kita buat silap, jangan serkap jarang. Tuan2 dahi hitam bersujudpun nak buat perkara yang terkutuk ni ke? mengucap banyak2 Tuan2 ingat ALLAH yang lebih mengeathui dan menguasai segala.

Surind Raj said...

to anonymous 4:14pm, I invite you to view these documentaries with open a open mind & heart:
http://surind.blogspot.com/2008/03/root-of-all-evil-enemies-of-reason.html

Anonymous said...

The United Nations didn't want to provide funds to Afghanistan because the Talibans were 'kurang ajar'. The only language Talibans (and their symphatizers) understand is Yankee cookie cutters and boots!

Mat Rempit said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

quote:
Surind Raj said...

to anonymous 4:14pm, I invite you to view these documentaries with open a open mind & heart:
http://surind.blogspot.com/2008/03/root-of-all-evil-enemies-of-reason.html

hi surind... the root of all evil is religion??? buddha, jesus, mohamed, taught their followers to be peaceful to everyone. how can that be evil? u are truly blinded by atheism.

those who involved in armed robbery, burglary etc2. do you think they regularly go to the church every weekend? for goodness sake! how could atheism HELP the society to live in peace? i have one issue with atheists. they comment on everything but offer nothing.


i would like to share this article with the readers:

----------------------------------------
Last night, I tuned in to Channel 4 for The Root of All Evil? a programme by Professor Richard Dawkins (Chair of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford, pictured) damning the revival of religious superstition.

(For some background on Dawkins, check out criticism by Clive Bradley, a reply from Dawkins, and Les Hearn defending Dawkins).

Most unfortunately, as soon as the programme had started, nearly-two-year-old Harrison woke up, and made such a noise that he also woke newly-four-year-old Joe. So my attention to the first section of the show was limited. Still, it lasted an hour, which was thankfully longer than my kids’ wakefulness. So I’ll pass a few comments.

In religious programming and beyond, there is plenty of TV that presents religious belief without questioning it, so this programme was welcome. On the broad question he addressed – science versus religious superstition – Dawkins is absolutely right, and he is right to raise the alarm about the revival of religious belief and the repression and violence it can lead to. He has a beautiful turn of phrase at times – there were plenty of soundbites in the opening ten minutes that I would have written down had I not had a child in each arm. And he addressed Islam, Christianity and Judaism, so sparing himself ridiculous accusations like “Islamophobia” that the defenders of reaction and superstition like to chuck at people whose arguments can take them apart.

But, there are some buts. Before laying into him, I should point out that this TV programme is a two-parter, and some of these points could well be covered next week.

Firstly, Dawkins chose to interview some of the more obviously barmy advocates of religion. It is quite right to show that such people exist, and that they have frightening power over their flocks and in politics, but they were easy for him to expose, even lampoon, because they pretty much did it themselves. If, as he claims, he wants to debunk religious belief per se, not just its extreme manifestations, then it would be good to see him argue with someone more “reasonable”.

Secondly, whilst the Prof showed how religionists influence politics, I did not hear him address how willing politicians are to be influenced by them. Creationists are certainly villains against science and humanity; but so are the politicians who want to let them run state schools.

Thirdly, the programme appeared to present the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians as simply a clash of religious fundamentalisms. Of course, there is a strong element of this, and it certainly makes the situation worse. But you can not understand this issue without also acknowledging that the Palestinians are dispossessed and denied national self-determination, and that their intifada is not simply an uprising against the desecration of a mosque, but against the military occupation and terrible conditions that they live under. Nor that Israeli Jews are not simply fixated on keeping their own holy land, but have understandable fears about anti-semitism and conquest. And that there are secularists, even atheists, on both ‘sides’ of the conflict, who are not in the least motivated by religious crusading.

Finally, and I think most importantly, Root Of All Evil? showed the limitations of bourgeois secularism. Dawkins is very articulate in his de-bunking of religion, but often seemed reduced to exasperated shoulder-shrugging about how ignorant and primitive people are.

He explained well how delusion persists if it is mass delusion, as people’s superstitions are reinforced by hearing them back from others. But that is not all there is to it. Many people stick to religion because they cling to a hope of something better than their inadequate life in an unjust society. Yes, science debunks religion, but does it offer people a better life in a better world? On its own, no.

To effectively win people away from religion, you have to show that people ourselves can change the world through our own struggles. It is no accident that the revival of religion has come during a slump in the labour movement.

The conditions in which capitalism makes people live will always drive them into the arms of religion. It seems highly improbable to me that there could be capitalism without religion. But even if there could, it would still be a system that exploits, impoverishes, debases, discriminates and kills.

Religion is, if you like, “evil”. But the root of all evil is not religion, but the division of society into classes.

from: http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5468

Tulang Besi said...

Anon says:

"http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2008/09/15/taliban-cut-off-afghan-teacher-s-ears-as-punishment.html"

REPLY: You mean to say it's one of those misinformation campaign against the Taliban.

Hmmm interesting.

Tulang Besi said...

I think believing in Richard Dawkins is like expecting Marx to support Capitalism.

It's not like Dawkin is right all the time anyways.

For one he can't even prove the existence of evolution.

Anonymous said...

anonymous said...
i used to walk there, what amazed me is the temple located dp inside the jungle...no houses...just some wild monkeys, how can MPAJ can located the temple...maybe there is complain from the monkeys to MPAJ?
--------------------------------
Our Malaysian Talibans like the MPAJ farkers don't really don't need any reason. The tendencies to destroy other people's places of worship is brainwashed into them. Knowing that they have the power and can get away with it is good enough.

Tulang Besi said...

Anon says:

October 2, 2008 5:22 PM


The United Nations didn't want to provide funds to Afghanistan because the Talibans were 'kurang ajar'. The only language Talibans (and their symphatizers) understand is Yankee cookie cutters and boots!"

REPLY: So, you admit that UN didn't provide aids to the starving Afghans and instead wanted to spend money on refurbishing statues?

So much for you advance way of thinking. It look to me your kind is more barbaric and inhuman compared to the Taliban.

Oh i forgot to mention another thing, the barbaric Taleban managed to reduce supply of heroin by 95%.

Tulang Besi said...

The MPAJ is still filled with UMNO people.

As far as I know, UMNO hates the Taliban.

Anon. your stupidity amazes me.

You hate Islam so much you're willing to hate anyone that loves Islam.

Anonymous said...

The German had brainwashed their people that they were of supreme race and therefore had the right to rule others.
The Japanese had the brainwash story that if they want the apple next door (that is China) they must conquer that country.
These stories may be a myth but the realism is that if any party want to achieve their power to rule, one way is to brainwash your followers so that they will support the so-called struggle map out by the party.
Therefore in the divide-and-rule politics in Malaysia, issues like ketuanan, struggle for race and religion will be the life line of the ruling party to continue their relevance and stay on to power to rule the country.

Anonymous said...

Tulang Besi,

If my non-impressed attitude with regards to Talibans is equaled to hatred of Islam, reveals so much of your small and closed up mind.

Simpletons like you can't tell the difference between religion and spirituality.

Tulang Besi said...

dear anon.

At least the Germans and Japanese, despite their racial superiority ideology, managed to turn their country into a First World country.

In other words, if UMNO managed to convert Malaysia into a First World Country, i bet not many CHinese and Indian would complaint.

I mean which Chinese or Indian would not want First World education, health care, industries etc.

The biggest problem with UMNO, they harp on racial superiority and they got nothing to show for it.

When people complaint, they start to play the racial card to shut people up.

They use race and an instrument to hide failures and stupidity.

Mag M said...

Dear anonymous
Why do you have to resort to name callings? It is people like you that bring shame to any race. Calling people names is not going to help build understanding another race or religion. It is not going to bring us together. You can discuss things without being rude to others. You are no better than the ones you say are bad. If you want to see peace and harmony, it starts with ourselves.

Anonymous said...

Salam Lebaran tuan blog,

tulang besi said...
Now with the American/Haliburton agent agent Karzai in power, Afghanistan has entered the realm of all the other muslim nation of the world and will have to spend 50% of their future GDP paying back the interest of the debt they owe to the West.

Haliburton di Universiti Teknologi Petronas,Tronoh,Perak,Malaysia bagaimana agaknya ?

Penganut Islam,Kristian,Hindu,Buddha atau Atheis ke,masalah utama ialah apabila ada manusia yang tak hormat pada ugama orang lain,maka rumah kita sendiripun akan kena roboh.Ugama sudah tidak dihormati apatah lagi yang lain-lain.

Bangsa melayu,cina,india.....kemana kita nak tinggal dan lari bila UMN* terang-terang jual negara (fizikal/perjanjian ?) kita sedikit demi sedikit ? Dalam kepala mereka hanya ingat komisyen dan $$$.Bila terdesak mereka akan melaga-lagakan kita.

Wang boleh membeli kewarganegaraan! Dalam poket kita mana ada RM250 juta hasil komisyen itu ini.

Apakah gelaran yang patut kita beri pada mereka yang sanggup meroboh kuil,masjid dan surau ?

Gereja tak pernah pula kedengaran.
Adakah saya ketinggalan ?
Adakah saya fanatik ?


Wawa.

anakdesa1108 said...

I, for one am against the destruction of places of worship of any religion. From what I can see, the destruction of the shrine is purely done by some people that are against the state government. They wanted to paint bad picture on the PR govt so as the Indian people will go against them. I guess they are playing the same game which brought them down. They knew that one of the things that the Indian voted against them was due to the dustruction of a temple. So they are using the same to play on PR govt.

Anonymous said...

sad seing muslim defending those hindu extremist

Anonymous said...

What does the Religion of Peace (Islam) Teach About Violence?
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm

Summary:

The Quran contains 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers, and kill the infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

These verses are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not embedded within historical context (as are nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Qur'an.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. This proclivity toward violence and Muhammad's own martial tradition have resulted in a trail of blood and bodies across world history.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/In-The-Name-of-Allah.htm

Islamic terrorists have one other thing in common:

They credit their motivation and success to religion.

This distinguishes Islamic terrorism from mere crime and it is part of what makes Islam so very, very different from other religions.

Many people would prefer to bury their heads in the sand or look for ways to recast Islamic terror to fit their own political agenda, but the fact is that violent Muslims are quite explicit about the religious motivation that compels and justifies their actions.

The teachings and history of Islam that explain the violence are discussed elsewhere on this site. Here we just want to show that, as far as Islamic terrorists are concerned, their acts are done specifically in the name of Allah and for the cause of Islam and Islamic rule... across the globe.

Tulang Besi said...

The link http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm takes the Quran ONLY from it's translation.

Translation of the Quran IS NOT THE QURAN.

So the entire article is REJECTED.

None of it's explanation comes from the original language of the Quran, Arabic.

In fact, many of it's translations are flawed and stupid.

The intrepetation based on the translation is also deeply flawed.

You're barking on the wrong tree again, anon.

Anonymous said...

to anonymous October 3, 2008 4:19 AM

i pity that people like you will never understand the true meaning of religion. look, if you really want to know more about islam, you go and ask those who have the authority/or those with good credibility.

if you want to know about what happen in malaysian politics, you go and read the independent news. not the MSM such as utusan or berita harian. so my dear friend, why not if you want to know more about Islam, go and read from the true source?


i would like to share this article with all of you here (please at least read the BOLD section only if you are in a hurry):-
----------------------------------

Shedding more light on this issue, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, President of the Fiqh Council ofNorth America, states the following:

Thank you very much for your kind words that you do not hate Muslims. Hate is not good for any person. I want to assure you that we Muslims also do not hate non-Muslims, be they Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or followers of any religion or no religion. Our religion does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah).

The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Israa’ 17: 33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See Al-Ma’idah 5: 32)

However, your question is valid, then how come the Qur’an says, (kill them wherever you find them…) as it is mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah 2: 191 and Surah An-Nisaa’ 4: 89. The answer is simple and that is, you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. Read the full text and see what is said:

(Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 190-194)

For your second quotation also read the full text:

(They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.?w (An-Nisaa’ 4: 89-91)

Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one anywhere? These verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.

Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:

“When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)

Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)

Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)

source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544502

amoker said...

Whoa, and i tot the discussion is bout MPAJ. haha

ANyway, MPAJ is under the purview of PEMUDAH as they have a lot of issues with administration. Here, is one clear example of mi-adminstration.

Secondly, whatever Taliban's official explaination could not hide the fact that they have destroyed a historical monument of great value.

Thirdly, if Quranic translations ( to English) are not good enough and be rejected then i guess the explaination by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi should not hold water as well.

Anonymous said...

dear amoker,

did u actually read the whole article from Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi? have u read the argument from the religion of peace website?

maybe u are a busy person or u have misunderstood the message. well, let me summarize this to you.

the article mentioned that it is not right to take just a part of a paragraph and jump to the conclusion. the verses in the Quran should be the read as a whole. you should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. only then you can understand the message.

For example:

i am so upset. i was so upset that i feel like i want to commit suicide. my best friend came to me and help me with my problem.

now, if u ignore the whole paragraph there and u just take this bit "i want to commit suicide". what is your response to it? if u are my good friend, u will quickly ring the psych team and get help for me. however, if u read the whole paragraph, what will be your response???

again, please read this:

It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
i used to walk there, what amazed me is the temple located dp inside the jungle...no houses...just some wild monkeys, how can MPAJ can located the temple...maybe there is complain from the monkeys to MPAJ?

October 2, 2008 3:31 PM

------------------

Sorry brader kuil tu semua orang tahu kalau lalu jalan tersebut.
Dari jalan tak berturap sekarang dah bertar.
Memang PR tak bagi roboh semua rumah ibadat (lain dari masjid sebenarnya)..Itu sebab kalau kita tengok banyak kuil sekarang yang makin besar cepat ambil kesempatan..tapi takkan boleh langgar undand-undang..
Roboh setinggan tapi kuil masih kukuh..
Yang pasti mereka semua sudah naik tocang dibantu oleh mereka yang dipangil melayu atas nama nak dapat undi..

Whatif said...

to anonymous October 3, 2008 7:57AM
You wrote:
Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:

“I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)
My say:
Pls note that those words were not attributed to Jesus but supposedly spoken by the nobleman in the parable of the 10 minas. Pls read http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=19&version=31
I agree the old testament has many violent verses which might turn people off but most Christians used it for reference mainly and attribute the OT to the God of vengeance who practised "an eye for an eye" sort of rules; kind of like our parents and teachers of old who would whack us for any mistakes made.
Nowadays, most parents do not use the cane anymore. They would rather educate the kids to correct their own wrong doings and impress upon them the message of love and forgiveness.
Likewise, the New Testament is about the God of Love and Forgiveness. The NT can be said to be the saving Grace of Christianity. Eventhough, there are hundreds of different sects or denominations, all seems to be at peace, each having their own congregation.
It is hoped that the various sects of Islam could also practise in peace with one another and not condemn each other's practices.
Peace to all mankind.

Anonymous said...

Hey,hey,hey,this anon fella smells like dat anti jihadist buffon.Richard dawkins ,once gain eh?Man,since when Richie became a a gnostic being eh?lol!!

Anyway,back to topic.Yes,I too suspect,this perobohan kuil is one of BN's plots.Who screamed the most?Woopsy,it was MIC.Well,that reveals a lot,doesnt it?;-).

Psst bro Tulang Besi,is it possible,err..Tengu R has joined PR?

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