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Friday, August 28, 2009

To Muslims, "Shariah" means "Rule of Law"

In truth, after living under various dictatorships and secular rulers, the Muslims have discovered that Shariah is a very powerful and effective tool to provide rule of law for the Muslims. It has been

I had once published an article by Noah Feldman which was published in the NY Times online before.

Noah states that the motivation for Muslims clamoring for shariah is nothing more than their need for rule of law. AS such, the Shariah has sucessfully provided Muslims with rule of law for 1400 years, until the shariah institution was replaced by the Muslims secular elites rulers.

This piece will try to summarize the points used by Noah Feldman in the article he wrote.

But first let me explain my motivation for writing this piece. It is not by anyway trying to influence Non Muslims into accepting the Shariah as their overriding law. I strongly believe that Non Muslims should not be subjected to the Shariah as they do not believe in the Quran and Sunnah.

If you don’t accept Shariah, that is your right. I won’t fault you for it.. But I take offense when lies are being uttered with regards to Islam and Shariah. That is my motivation for writing many postings on Shariah lately. It’s not by any way trying to campaign for Shariah, it is only meant to fight lies and half-truth currently being aired in the blogwave by a few unscrupulous “Muslims”.

Notice that I am promoting an article written by a Jewish author and opposing articles written by people who claims to be Muslims i.e. Raja Petra, Mustafa Akyol, Haris Ibrahim etc. To me, it’s not important who says it, what’s important is what is being said.

Summary of Noah Feldman Article:

Here is the summarized version of the article for our easy understanding:

1. The Shariah has been the instrument for maintaining the “rule of law” in the 1400 years of Islamic rule, whether it’s Caliphate or Sultanate.

2. To Muslims, the concept of “Rule of Law” and “Shariah” is interchangeable. This is because the Shariah has been instrumental in preventing power concentrated to the executive (in the form of Caliphate or Sultans)

3. Since Shariah, derived from Al Quran, As Sunnah, Ijma (Consensud) and Qiyas (allegory) cannot stand on it’s own, it requires a group of people in the society to “operate” it. This group of people has come to be known to us as Scholars, “Ulama” or “Mullah”.

4. Caliphates and Sultans gains their legitimacy as rulers and executives from the “Scholar”class. In return, the power to legislate and adjudicate are given to the “scholars” thus ensuring the rule of law.

5. The Caliphates are limited to executive decisions and regulations but they have control of the Army. However, since the “Ulama” has control in matters of laws, the balance of power is maintained.

6. In short, “rule of law” and “separation of powers” has been in practice in Islam for the last 1400 years.

7. Mullah’s and Scholars have been the agent of stability and predictability as quoted below:

“As a confident, self-defined elite that controlled and administered the law according to well-settled rules, the scholars were agents of stability and predictability — crucial in societies where the transition from one ruler to the next could be disorderly and even violent.”

8. They are a good check and balance to the government in terms of preventing tyranny and oppression

“And by controlling the law, the scholars could limit the ability of the executive to expropriate the property of private citizens. This, in turn, induced the executive to rely on lawful taxation to raise revenues, which itself forced the rulers to be responsive to their subjects’ concerns.”


9. The last Chaliphate, the Ottomans, even tried to introduce democracy and open elections to elect their executive bodies. If the Ottoman was not toppled, they would have been the first democratic political institution in Modern Europe

10. Success of Islam is attributable to Shariah as Noah Feldman puts it:

“The scholars and their law were thus absolutely essential to the tremendous success that Islamic society enjoyed from its inception into the 19th century.”

11. “Shariah” is actually a “higher law” with some specifics. It is fixed and cannot be altered. In matters where the Shariah is silence, or in specifics not addressed by Shariah, and where most of Islamic Jurisprudence activities happen, the area is known as “Fiqh”.

12. So, there is no such thing as Islam being rigid and inflexible as matters with regards to modern world challenges is debated in “Fiqh” wth the use of “Al Ijtihad”.

In conclusion, I’d like to stress again the fact that Shariah and Islam is heavily being discredited with lies and half-truths by people who claims to be “muslims:. I am not advocating that Shariah is imposed on Non Muslims.

I am just asking the Non Muslims community in this country to understand why “Shariah” is such a fundamental aspect of Muslim’s life. Please do not take advice on Shariah and Islam from known enemies of “Shariah” like Zainah Anwar, Haris Ibrahim, RPK, Mustafa Akyol and the rest.

Tulang Besi

84 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear Tulang Besi

I do not understand why you and some in PAS and some in UMNO shouted so much about Syariah Law.

If the rakyat elected PAS like in Kelantan again and again, go ahead and implement your Shariah Law and "rule of Law".

However, if rakyat rejected PAS like in Trengganu (PAS ruled for just one term), that means your "rule of Law" is rejected.

Therefore, implement your "rule of Law" wisely and not force your "rule of Law" down people throat. Otherwise come next election rakyat may reject PAS in Kedah, Selangor and Perak like what happen in Trengganu.

muhammad said...

Anon,

I take it you're a non-muslim?

This is not a political matter. This is about the right of Muslims to carry out the law as it is prescribed to us.

Matters such as drinking alcohol do not concern non-Muslims. Therefore I do not see how they can be disturbed by application of the law.

You do not share the Muslim view; that's fine. But please RESPECT our right to practise our religion.

Tulang Besi said...


I do not understand why you and some in PAS and some in UMNO shouted so much about Syariah Law.

If the rakyat elected PAS like in Kelantan again and again, go ahead and implement your Shariah Law and "rule of Law".
.

I think you miss the point of the article completely. Shariah will ensure rule of law in spite of anyone being in power.

The Kartika issue happened in Pahang, where it is being ruled by UMNO, not PAS.

But Shariah still exists.

It is a source of rule of law and allows Muslims hope of justice despite being ruled by tyranical, secular elites like we have now.

Frank said...

Tulang Besi

The less liberal Muslims get into over worked emotional stress when a critique is made on syariah laws.

A critique of syariah law does not mean disrespect of Islam.

You agree to disagree and you argue your case.

Muslims have all the right to criticise how others practise their religions as much as non Muslims have the right to criticise how muslims practise Islam.

The distinction should be made:

The criticism of the interpretation of Islamic laws by muslims and the criticism of the Islam itself.

Yes there are those who criticise Islam wholesale. There are those who criticise the Koran.

The issue here on the beer is the criticism on the interpretation or the practise of syariah laws.

Muslims in 21st century will have to come to terms one day with the clash of western values of human rights and dignity versus the Islamic values of human rights and dignity.

In the next 50 years, we do not see the rise of Islamic civilisation as was in the past. Western values of human dignity and human rights have nothing to do with institutionalised religion and the UN Human Rights Charter is based on that, universal human values not Judaeo-Christian, Buddhist or Hindu human values.

Malaysian Muslims, like those in Afghanistan and Iran, as a result of UMNO's creeping Islamisation of the country to counter PAS during Dr M's regime put Malaysia on the same road as Sudan, Iran and Afghanistan took.

Anonymous said...

Dear Muhammad

I do not understand why you SHOUTED AGAIN saying I did not respect your right to practise your religion.

Did I force you to drink beer? Did I force you to gamble? Did I stop you from praying? Did I stop you from living a life according to Syariah Law? Did I stop you from being a Muslim?

Every thing is somehow related to political matter if it will affect some one everyday life.

If you cannot convince and impress the rakyat thru action (not thru shouting) that Syariah Law is good, your agenda and your policy even if it is God's law will not be accepted by rakyat.

So when rakyat do not accept your agenda and policy (thru election), are you going to say the rakyat are kafir or munafiq or whatever that you can think of?

When you cannot achieve your agenda and policy, are you going to take the violent path because rakyat who are kafir, munafiq or whatever deserve to be punished or die?

PAS is perceived as a clean and non-corruptable party, but years after years PAS is rejected by Muslim voters in Trengganu, Pahang, Kedah, Perlis during the time when UMNO is not that corrupt. PAS can blame the kafir (Chinese Malaysians and Indian Malaysians), but there are not many kafir in Trengganu, Pahang, Kedah, Perlis.

Ironically, many kafir voted PAS during the last General Election in Selangor, Perak, Kedah, Penang.

So who is frightenning the rakyat from accepting the broader implementation of Syariah Law? A nobody rakyat like me or some people in PAS?

Umar Rentaka said...

Dearest Tulang Besi,
I fully support the decision to cane Kartika, even if it meant that Malaysia will get a black eye from the blows of the world.
Because if you don't cane her, then many Muslimats or Muslim women will be inspired to drink beer in public since they will then realize that Shariah laws are just for fun, right?

muhammad said...

"I do not understand why you SHOUTED AGAIN saying I did not respect your right to practise your religion."

It's not shouting. It's a plea.

"Did I force you to drink beer? Did I force you to gamble? Did I stop you from praying?"

Did I insinuate that you did any of these?

"Did I stop you from living a life according to Syariah Law? Did I stop you from being a Muslim?"

This is where it gets tricky. You, or other non-Muslims commenting on this matter, did not STOP us, of course. But you, for all intents and purposes, did make what many of us Muslims feel are offending remarks on this.

Imagine, for a moment, if a non-Muslim said fasting in Ramadhan is unnecessary because it decreases productivity. What do you reckon will the Muslims feel?

For a lot of Muslims, this is what the comments on the Kartika issue, here as elsewhere, amount to.

"Every thing is somehow related to political matter if it will affect some one everyday life."

True enough. But this issue is more religious than political. Had Kartika been allowed to proceed with the caning, much of the fuss will be over and done with.

What makes this issue political is the delay and the manner that it is being handled by the government.

I had speculated on this site that BN will prolong and manipulate this issue for some political gain. Turns out I'm right.

If BN is indeed using the issue as a way to scare non-muslims off PAS, I'm sad to say it appears to be working on you.

"So when rakyat do not accept your agenda and policy (thru election), are you going to say the rakyat are kafir or munafiq or whatever that you can think of?

When you cannot achieve your agenda and policy, are you going to take the violent path because rakyat who are kafir, munafiq or whatever deserve to be punished or die? "

Nope. Never said that and never will. Will you care to explain where you got this notion?

"PAS is perceived as a clean and non-corruptable party, but years after years PAS is rejected by Muslim voters in Trengganu, Pahang, Kedah, Perlis during the time when UMNO is not that corrupt."

There are many factors why PAS was rejected by voters in these states, but I strongly doubt that rejection of Shariah Law is one of them.

As to umno being not that corrupt even then, there are many who'll diasgree, but that's another issue.

"PAS can blame the kafir (Chinese Malaysians and Indian Malaysians), but there are not many kafir in Trengganu, Pahang, Kedah, Perlis.

Ironically, many kafir voted PAS during the last General Election in Selangor, Perak, Kedah, Penang."

Your usage of the word kafir imply negativity towards PAS. May I ask, who did you vote in the last election?

"So who is frightenning the rakyat from accepting the broader implementation of Syariah Law? A nobody rakyat like me or some people in PAS?"

Not sure what you meant. Are you saying that implementation of Shariah Law will frighten the rakyat? If so, how? Can you tell me what non-Muslims stand to lose from a law that concerns Muslims only?

Anonymous said...

Dear Tulang Besi

Many things exist in this world and will still exist regardless of which party is the ruling party.

But in order for rakyat to accept and respect the implementation of a public policy or law, the support of rakyat is needed (thru election). Rakyat can force policy to be changed even if a policy is related to God's law (which will exist forever).

In other countries, there are people who choose to force the Shariah Law which will affect rakyat everyday life down rakyat throat by force (arm struggle revolution or religion police). Will rakyat Malaysia accept such policy?

Only the next General Election will tell but by then the damage is done and it will be too late for PAS to recover the support of rakyat.

Anonymous said...

Islam is and never was a religion.Like Buddhism,it's actually a path, a sun light path towards realising the SUPEME.It's actually a yogic path,which involves surrendering ourselves (and opening of the soul) to the SUPREME.Go to any type of ashrams,monasteries,one will see all sorts ban..ban on alcohol,smoking,sex,certain types of food.When one takes up yoga(any type),one must give up all the things that appear normal to us.But the problem is,humanity have distorted things so much much,as a result the true/real essence of Islam,Christainity,Buddhism,Hindu Dharma have almost dissapeared.It's very clear Divine persanlities like Buddha,Prophet Muhammad took birth as human beings in order to divinies human beings.But alas,we continue to to commit the same mistakes,and the end result is?Centuries ol fisacosacos,disputes continues..

Anak Perelih said...

Al lot of comment on this Kartika and Syariah Law made by non muslims shows how ignorant they are about the subject they comment... this Potong Saga short movie describe this very well....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKcHEJJ9Uy0

Anonymous said...

[Yusufali 22:54] And that those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Qur'an) is the Truth from thy Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily Allah is the Guide of those who believe, to the Straight Way.

What happens to a person when he or she starts to surrender totally to the divine?

"If it is in the heart it may be psychic fire – it is possibly not the joy that created the fire, but the decision you had come to to believe in the Mother's action whether the mind understood or not. Such an attitude encourages the opening of the psychic and would therefore bring at once the psychic joy and the kindling of Agni in the psychic centre.

***

The difficulty in giving up habits is common to the physical mind in all people; nothing is more difficult to it. The fire you feel must be what we call Agni, the fire of purification acting on the physical mind to change it.

The bridge you saw was the symbol of transition from the ordinary to the spiritual consciousness; the wide plain was a symbol of the large peace and silence which comes with the spiritual consciousness when one rests in the Divine.

The perfumes you felt were true perfumes but not of the physical world. This body of flesh and blood is not the whole of ourselves; there is unseen by the eyes a subtle body also and one becomes aware of it when the inner consciousness opens. It was from deep within there that the perfumes came, perfumes of purity, of love and surrender (rose) etc. It is there deep within that the psychic being dwells and it is there that you are trying to go when the inward-going impulse or pressure comes; it was why you felt more and more peaceful, because you were going deeper and deeper into the psychic from which these perfumes came.

http://www.aurobindo.ru/workings/sa/22-24/eng_3_1.htm

muhammad said...

"The less liberal Muslims get into over worked emotional stress when a critique is made on syariah laws."

Funny, I find it is the non-Muslims and "liberal" Muslims who did get into over worked emotional stress when this issue was brought up in the first place. Like here.

The issue of Shariah Law, its interpretation and implementation is too complex to be explained in a few sentences, but I implore non-Muslims and Muslims alike to read more on the issue. You can start with the Noah Feldman article.

Please, gather some information before commenting.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Anonymous said...

//The issue of Shariah Law, its interpretation and implementation is too complex to be explained in a few sentences, but I implore non-Muslims and Muslims alike to read more on the issue. You can start with the Noah Feldman article.//

Yes very complex indeed.The problem is law cannot stop people's indulges.

onmuk_cufi said...

Saudara TB,
I hope I didn't mis-read your article here. Are you trying to say that the ottoman empire would proper as a true Islamic country, had it not been the secular revolutionists (i.e. Kamal) who ruined the party?

I quote your original sentence
"If the Ottoman was not toppled, they would have been the first democratic political institution in Modern Europe"

The ottoman had been committing massacre, the murdering of siblings among heirs etc, and you were quoting them as example of model islamic nation? OMG.

And BTW, I find the word "People (Rakyat)" glaringly missing from your ideal model of Syariah government. Who gives the right for the sultan (king or whoever) the executive power? who gives the ulama, mullahs the legislative power? it seems the rakyat just have to accept them with faith that they will behave. what is teh check and balance in case they don't?

In fact, your ideal model sounds really similar with what the europeans had eons ago - power division between the palace and the church, while the PEOPLE were left out in the equation.

Is this the best you can suggest?
I have to opt out. Sorry,

Anonymous said...

Buddha was right when he said that the world is an illusion because it didnt reflect the realites of the absolute absolute.In short,everthing on earth is technically haram!! because,The Kalam Of Allah's attribute is vastly different compared to ourselves and the earth..kalam Of Allah is absolutely still,no sound at all,everthing infinite but here,especailly manusia,bising snangat, limited and ignoran fools in everthing!!akhir bulan,kena pi cari ah long pulak!!

Anonymous said...

Dear ALL and Muhammad

The last General Election, I did not vote for BN for sure and my area is a Muslim majority area. You can figure out which party I voted for. But if miracle happens and UMNO improves, nobody know which party rakyat will vote for in next election.

I did not know kafir is only used by some PAS members, I thought UMNO members also used this word when it benefits UMNO. I do not give a damn what other people like to call me, kafir or Melayu racist or keling or cina or whatever. I am a rakyat, that is important.

There are non-Muslim AS WELL AS MUSLIM who commented that fasting in Ramadhan is unnecessary because it decreases productivity, this type of remarks you can hear from all over the world by non-Muslim and Muslim, and also this type of remarks is also said to Hindu, Buddhist etc who carried out fasting, not just said to Muslim.

Good Muslim should just ignore and forgive such ignorant people (who said such remarks), such people do not understand religion, such people do not understand happiness is not based on just money and more money. If you have the time, you can explain to guide such people, if you do not have the time, just ignore and forgive such people.

About the violent path, it is important to know other people stand on such issue, whether people can debate and exchange different idea/opinion on race, religion, idealogy etc openly and even heatedly without violence.

Kartika is brave and courageuos to face the Shariah Law, but many who set-up the law from UMNO and some in PAS and royalty enjoy "imunity" from that law.

I am not scared by the Kartika case, I am disgusted by the implementation of the law only on common rakyat.

I think PAS and PKR (and UMNO too) got it all wrong, the Kartika case and the Selangor Beer issue scared Muslim more than scaring non-Muslim as shown by the Permantang Pasir by-election.

I am also very sure come next election, people such as Hassan Ali who are perceived to force "rule of Law" down rakyat throat will lose both Muslim and non-Muslim vote.

If there are many factors why PAS was rejected by voters in some of these states even when UMNO is corrupt and munafiq, and PAS strongly doubt that rejection of Shariah Law by voters is one of them, why not PAS find out the reason and improve on PAS weakness instead of focusing again and again on Shariah Law like the beer issue (niat bagus tapi cara tidak betul)?

Anonymous said...

There are 2 types of Muslims in Malaysia.

Type #1
These are the modern thinking Muslims. They are the smarter & wiser ones who know how to mix MODERN LIFESTYLE with 'Ketinggalan Zaman' Laws. Their mentality are more flexible & are able to cope with the rapid change of lifestyle of today's modern living.

Type #2
Muslims who fall in this category are also known as TALIBANS. These Muslims are uncivilized & lacks education. All they hold-on to are OUTDATED ISLAMIC LAWS of which were used during the days where camels & horses were the main mode of transport, tree leaves were used to make houses & rivers were known as toilets. In another words, Muslims who support the whipping of KARTIKA fall into this category prefectly.

Anonymous said...

It's really ironic to notice there are many MUSLIMS in Malaysia who still believe in EXTREME ISLAMIC teachings.

The KARTIKA case had brought SHAME to Malaysia. It's NOT becos' Malaysia is a shameful country but instead is the wisdom of some Malaysian TALIBANS that made Malaysia a laughing stock.

Anonymous said...

MALAYSIA is in BIG, BIG TROUBLE!!!

To counter this problem, we gotta do these 2 things immediately:

1) Identify those who support the whipping punishment on KARTIKA.

2) Send these TALIBANS who support the whipping punishment back to Afghanistan without further delay.

If these 2 important things are NOT done immediately, thewn, don't be surprised to see 2 aeroplanes crashing into Petronas Twin Tower pilot by these INSANE BARBARIC NINJA TALIBANS.

Tulang Besi said...


The ottoman had been committing massacre, the murdering of siblings among heirs etc, and you were quoting them as example of model islamic nation? OMG.
.

At the time of the massacare, the Ottoman army was already under the control of the young turks

Anonymous said...

It's SPOOKY to know there are many Muslims in Malaysia who still adopt TALIBAN menatlity.

Malaysian TALIBANS are usually those who live in the kampung area of Terengganu, Kelantan & Kedah. it's really easy to identify these TALIBANS.

Pay close attention to their dressing & don't be surprise to spot many OSAMA BIN LADEN look-alike.

However in K.L (capital), it's rare to spot these Osama twins. This is becos' Muslims in the city are smarter, wiser & are able to accept flexibility in changes. TALIBANS can NEVER cope-up with K.L. lifestyle & asking them to do so is like asking TALIBANS to use a mobile phone of which they had NEVER seen one before.

Anonymous said...

True, Very True!!!

I bet these OLD FASHIONED THINKING Muslims must still be using tree leaves as their tissues, tree branches as their cutlery & coconut shell as their cup.

No wonder there are still so many incest cases in those kampung areas. It's becos' these TALIBANS are purely uncivilized & they regard having sex with their family members is LOVE.

Mad bunch of OSAMA fools!!!

Anonymous said...

The recent KARTIKA case became such a HOT TOPIC is mainly due to certain Muslims in the country who are still adopting OUTDATED ISLAMIC LAWS.

We can't blame them becos these OUTDATED MUSLIMS lack education & exposure in today's modern world. I can understand why they support the whipping punishment & it's becos' they have got no clue of what is happening around them.

Try putting them in the busy streets of K.L & they will think they had arrived in HEAVEN. They will also be shocked to see the existences of high rise buildings, aeroplanes, cars & traffic lights.

Anonymous said...

There are some idiotic Muslims who simply cannot accept MODERNIZATION.

It's these assholes who are making a fool out of Islam & Malaysia.

Send these assholes back to Afghanistan or otherwise HELL!!!

onmuk_cufi said...

Saudara TB,
Hamidian Massacre happened during the rule of Sultan Hamid II, before the young Turk time. A recorded 100k - 200k of innocent Armenians were cold bloodedly murdered.

My was just this:
Ottoman empire is not a GOOD example (in fact, a BAD one) of Islamic country, in terms of:

1. Frequent un-provoked invasions (or attempts)of neighboring countries.
2. Widespread slavery and abuses of human right.
3. Several massacres of people under its rule.
4. Murdering of siblings by the eldest heir was allowed.

Surely, you are not advocating that the above are acceptable in a country practicing true Syariah, right?

Anonymous said...

I respect religion regardless whether it's Islam, Christianity, Buddhisn, Hinduism, etc.

However, please, please, use COMMON SENSE when applying religion laws into today's world.
The KARTIKA case is utmost absurb & Malaysia is being made a scapegoat for laughter simply becos there are certain individuals who simply cannot accept MODERNIZATION.

Taliban = PAS said...

Ohhh NO!!! There are TALIBANS in Malaysia!!! Help!!!!

Take a look at those PAS leaders & you'll know they are TALIBAN related. They way they dress, they hat they wear & the beard the keep....they look so much like OSAMA BIN LADEN's relative.

Better hope these PAS TALIBANS don't know how to fly a plane. Otherwise 911 Malaysian version might occur. Just beware!!!

Anonymous said...

Differences of AFGHANISTAN TALIBANS vs MALAYSIAN TALIBANS:

1) Malaysian TALIBANS live in jungle, while Afghanistan TALIBANS lived in desert.

2) Malaysian TALIBANS ride goats, while Afghanistan TALIBANS rides horses.

3) Malaysian TALIBANS lives in kampung hut made from woods & tree leaves, while Afghanistan TALIBANS lives in makeshift tents.

4) Malaysian TALIBANS are STUPID, while Afghanistan TALIBANS are alittle smarter.

5) Malaysian TALIBANS beard are shorter while Afghanistan TALIBANS beard are longer.

6) Malaysian TALIBANS know NUTS about flying planes & making bombs, while Afghanistan TALIBANS know almost anything destructive.

Anonymous said...

The day we have PAS in the country is the day we have TALIBANS operating in Malaysia.

No wonder people from PAS mostly look like Osama bin Laden.

Anonymous said...

I now understand why DAP have difficulties working with PAS.

How can a smart & intelligent party like DAP work with TERRORISTS???

It's like asking U.S.A. to team-up with Osama bin Laden.

Pukimak punya PAS said...

PKR & DAP should expel PAS from Pakatan Rakyat.

PAS is a disgrace for supporting the whipping of KARTIKA & PAS is clearly a BIG LIABILITY to Pakatan Rakyat.

Let PAS be alone on their own. Perhaps after eating some PORK & drinking some WHISKY...they become a little smarter.

Anonymous said...

If DAP & PKR sincerely think of governing Malaysia in the near future, they MUST kick PAS out from their coalition.

PAS will be a burden becos' PAS still lack the wisdom to rule via a modern way. PAS thinking is still of those TALIBANS & they know SHIT about what modernization & globalization is all about.

PAS suka makan BABI said...

No wonder they said....

PAS = Part Agama Sesat

It's these insane Talibans that are giving Islam a bad name.

Anonymous said...

Oooiiiii TULANG BESI,

Why are u so quiet???

Are you:

1) Fasting. That's why you got no energy to reply. Go eat something then & reply us. QUICK!!!

2) Escaping fasting by hiding in a room commiting KHALWAt with your whore mother???

3) Busy fucking a PIG???

Anonymous said...

Islam memang agama yang SUCI,
PAS yang buat Islam di BENCI,
PAS mengajar Islam yang tak ERTI,
Ulama PAS semua busuk kat HATI.

Sebenarnya PAS adalah TALIBAN,
Fikiran mereka memang ketinggalan ZAMAN,
Nampak sungai ingat JAMBAN.
Islam dibawah PAS memang habis HARAPAN.

Tulang Besi anak seorang PELACUR,
Maknya dulu jual dari Kelantan ke JOHOR,
Walaupun maknya busuk dan HODOH,
Bayar sepuluh sen boleh main JUBOR.

Orang Melayu marah Tulang Besi PUKIMAK,
Orang Cina marah dia TIU NIA MA,
Asyik kena belasah sini dan SANA,
Sekarang takut bersembunyi nak cabar SAYA.

Anonymous said...

Halooo Pukimak Tukang Besi!!!

You dekat mana sekarang? You takut ke atau sibuk???

Sibuk main kongkek dengan babi atau sibuk rogol you punya adik kat kampung???

Pukimak punya Melayu lah lu

Anonymous said...

Hi all,

No disrespect to Islam but it's PAS that made Islam look BAD.

Only fucked-up piglets will blend religion with politics & PAS fit this defiantion perfectly.

I'm also amused how PAS piglets can say such a things like..."If you support PAS, you'll go heaven".

I reckon these wankers from PAS to start eating CHAR SIEW (roast pork) & start drinking whisky. Perhaps, this will wake them up & make them a little smarter.

PAS is a TERRORIST NETWORK linked to Al-Qaeda!!! They don't preach ISLAM but AGAMA SESAT SETAN instead.

Tulang Besi said...

notice the coward that wrote a series of nonsensical comments. its coming from a single writer who happens to be a malay muslim but thinks hes modern. but in truth from the quality of comments hes capable off, its clear he badly needs psycotheraphy.

Anonymous said...

Why is "Shariah" for muslims only ? If it is from God than all mankind must be subject to it.

Allah's laws must be applicable to the whole world and even more the whole universe.

Allah is PERFECT and PURE and His laws must also be PERFECT and PURE.

Please friend, can you or any other human being Perfectly and Purely implement Allah's Laws ? Are we Perfect and Pure like Allah ? Do you know that Allah cannot stand a single spot of blemish.

So, try-lah. In 1400 yrs many people have tried and all failed. Just name me a state where true and perfect shariah has been in existence from the Prophet's time upto now ? No ? Can you who is a mere mortal who is not perfect and pure implement something which is pure and perfect ?

I believe if it is Allah's will to dumbfound the self-righteous so that they will have more humility. Don't force the issue on Allah or else something worse will happen !

Look at the essence of Allah's Laws. What does He want his creatures to be like ?

We humans need laws whether it be Westminster, American, Christian, etc. Anyway, none of the above law versions have been implemented perfectly.

So what's the difference bro ?

If you try to implement Shariah, the LAW itself will curse you and your subjects !!!

Don't believe... Try it....

Anonymous said...

i simply don't understand why a lot of non muslims feeling the heat. Reading the comments pun naik pening. Mula2 cakap pasal the Kartika issue, then the law, then PAS bashing, then pas Taliban, then ISlam pulak kena, then last resort, attack TB personally. Apa ni?? Obiviously these pple ada somekind of mental instability. They want to get their voice heard but tak ada yg melayan. I doubt 99% commentors sini tahu apa maksudnya Taliban. Kebanyakan baca dari media2 barat and just like RTM and TV3, berita banyak songsang punya. Semua kena tipu. Hairan...

Anonymous said...

well,this matter has become a hot issue..what we can learn is to make sure the consistency of the shariah law, make sure every muslims abide by the rules,

Anonymous said...

haha..true2...the non muslims are too sensitive when comes to enforcement of Islam teachings....why they bother so much???scared no more muslims come to their pub ??? so no more untung ??haha..in fact they used term "rakyat" like all malaysian agree with them...i want to stress here that 55% malaysia population are muslims...a matter of time before we unite again and implement the shariah rules as the majority..but the rules is always fair to all mankind....

Anonymous said...

This is what Albert Einstein who is Jewish, said:
".. The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."
(Albert Einstein)

Tulang Besi said...

Type #1
These are the modern thinking Muslims. They are the smarter & wiser ones who know how to mix MODERN LIFESTYLE with 'Ketinggalan Zaman' Laws. Their mentality are more flexible & are able to cope with the rapid change of lifestyle of today's modern living.
.

So how is getting drunk and after that making a jackass out of yourself a sign of modernity?

Tulang Besi said...

Oooiiiii TULANG BESI,

Why are u so quiet???

Are you:

1) Fasting. That's why you got no energy to reply. Go eat something then & reply us. QUICK!!!

2) Escaping fasting by hiding in a room commiting KHALWAt with your whore mother???

3) Busy fucking a PIG???

August 28, 2009 5:49 PM
Delete
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Islam memang agama yang SUCI,
PAS yang buat Islam di BENCI,
PAS mengajar Islam yang tak ERTI,
Ulama PAS semua busuk kat HATI.
.

These are remarks made by a malay, "muslim" individual from the anti hadeeth sect.

They claim they represent the true picture of Islam but their Quran is in English and Malay.

The real Quran is in Arabic and read in the way the Prophet read it.

They reject al hadeeth but yet the Quran says the Hadeeth is Revelations from Allah SWT.

Their tounge exhibits why they fail to see the true picture of islam. They are not just ignorant but also arrogant. That is why they will never understand the true Islam.

They love the English quran because they can intepret it any way they want.

ohh and they're also cowards because they dare not name themselves in their comments.

They are the true hypocrites that the Quran speaks of.

Hehehehehe

Tulang Besi said...


I'm also amused how PAS piglets can say such a things like..."If you support PAS, you'll go heaven".

I reckon these wankers from PAS to start eating CHAR SIEW (roast pork) & start drinking whisky. Perhaps, this will wake them up & make them a little smarter.
.

As opposed to Anti Hadeeth people who celebrates Hari Raya despite the fact there is no hari Raya mentioned in the Quran.

Hypocrites do not have the right to insult others.

Cowards too.

Anonymous said...

This is what Albert Einstein who is Jewish, said:
".. The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there is any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism."
(Albert Einstein)
Absolutely bullshit.In fact Quantum Mechanics is closer in reaching certain aspect of the SUPREME reality.What's the nature of Nirvana?It's indeterminable .One cannot say it's void.It's just "blank",perfectly still,soundless,beingless,timeless ,spaceless.In the TAO,its the same thing,but with a difference.All potentiality is there,waiting for manifestation.It's the Nirvana of The Prophet MOhammad which is aboslutely positive.In the Prophet's ascention,it's very clear he enters the positive of SUPREME,the SUPREMe CONSCIOUS BEING, which is also the absolute,and aslo the extreme limit of the absolue.It's both stillnes and kinetic(in laymen's terms).That's the reason why sages in India say Islam is all about SUPREME"S POWER,the very same power that creates everything,and it's very clearly desrcibed in the quran.Thouands of years ago,vedic rishis discovered the "same thing",and they recorded their findings(just like our modern day saintis) in the form of poetic mantras.The vedic seers were known as poet seers.The differnce is that,the vedic rishis/seers didnt bring the powers "down.They perhaps knew humanity was not ready for radical changes.But in the Nabi Muhammads's case,the SUPREM powers did 'rain down",as a result,human's lives got a new direction.But the problem with scholars,logicains,they systemise,and dont see the spirtual aspects of the Quran.I read so many comments,and I find,that most of the scholar appear "blur" .Some have even taken the "buddhistic" view,u know,no images,no nothing,completely formless,Tuhan ada ataih,things like that,which is wrong!!from the quarn,we get extremely valuble lesson,about the mechanics,and dynamics of the SUPREME.For instance,the horizontal openings,which is the heart centre(cardiac center),which is the seat of the SOUL(which is the SUPREME HIMSELF wrapped up as a being),and the powers that ascend and descend,and most importantly COMPLTE SURRENDER as the way for realsing the SUPREME.It's the most challenging,difficult spiritaul path.All these SUPEME GOD MEN,scarificed their lives because of their love for humanity,and here we are,wasting bandwith talking kok about to whip or not,and my religion is greater then ur religion,bla bla bla.Go suck thumbs la!!

btw,Einstein bullshit about space bending is also a big joke!!The only thing whih is ok,is time being relative,that all!!

Anonymous said...

And the jewish religion is the most primitive of them all.Makes no sence what so ever,and kabbla,which is about love and light has been turned into occult!!We are aware of the true nature of the jewish faith,which is actually devil in disguise.

Anonymous said...

Modern way is the barbaric way of doing things.The problem is,Islamic scholars rely too much on logicians to enterpret things.Why the hell dont they get deeper meaning from islamic gnastic saints and sufis?In fact the division of shiah,sunni is itself against the teachings of the Quran,but ,we humans,sure know how to screw things up,distort this and that,mentalise semua,bikin rojak!

Anonymous said...

Why do u all think the Prophet told manusia haprak to surrender everthing to the SUPREME?It's because the SOUL(which the SUPREME HIMSELF) in us has alreday surrendered completely to the SUPreme,and we haprak manusia have no choice but to follo the command of SOUL in us.But what do we do..we pray mechanically,after praying,bikin macam macam.We are completely under the influence of external forces,as a result,we will never be able to cari the truth that is alredy in our hearts.

Anonymous said...

Souless kiawaestern arse lickers love to quote Enstein,big bang..kahkahkah..ptuih!!They are so brain dead they think by quoting Einstien,they bolehlah nampak clever.Man,I tell,ya,it's all kok n bull stuff,and guess what,labs in europe have recorded velocities faster then light?So mat sarreh arse lickers,what do u have to say about relativity which says speed of light is fixed?

Anonymous said...

Some Malaysian Muslims here think they are smarter than Albert Einstein.

And trying to talk about quantum physics to Albert Einstein

Perhaps talking about Islam to Albert Einstein would have been more credible.

It takes all kind of people to make this world move foreward, including some idiots too.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous August 28, 2009 11:46 PM

Don't forget, Islam came about in 600 AD and the fountainhead of Islam and Christianity is Judaism.

Moses or Nabi Musa, Abraham or Nabi Ibrahim, Jacob or Nabi Yaacob and Jesus or Nabi Isa were all JEWS and they pre-date Islam.

So don;'t insult Judaism. If you do so, you are insulting Islam.

So be smart before opening your mouth insulting other peoples' religion.

Anonymous said...

So don;'t insult Judaism. If you do so, you are insulting Islam.

Poraah!!Do you have any idea what the jews utter on the day of atonement!

Wong Ka Wai said...

Isu beer oleh Kartika sudah diperjelaskan oleh Zaid Ibrahim

sila layari (http://myzaidibrahim.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/jawapan-saya/)

p/s: Minuman herba (resipi lengkap and percuma) bagi mencegah selesema A (H1N1).

Sila layari http://bukakedaionline.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/minuman-herba-bagi-mencegah-selesema-a-h1n1/

(dikemaskini dengan gambar dan langkah penyediaan)

Anonymous said...

Some stupid f*ked up pariah thinks Albert Einstin is the most brilliant saintis.Yo Buto,now answer!!Why Space wants to bends it's arse the moment light from a distant star approaches earth?Didnt that crakpot Michaelson say space is vacuum,etherlless,so how come a vacuum,etherless space starts to bend when light appoaches earth?Apasai?Juboq gatai kot?Then we have the absurd theory sayin space is expending,contracting,..expending to what?..All these kelentongs about space contarcting,expending,being etherless will be swalloed by mongoloids who think Eisntein is a demi god!!Normally cacat who wanna nak act smart,nak tunjuk depa tu hip" like to quote Einsten,but they worldnt dare mention true genuieses like Bohr,Heisenberg,Paul Dirac,the kaki permepuan no1 Erwin Scrodingers,bongo eccentric Richard feynmann,John Stuart Bell,S.N.Bose..these magicians desreve to be respected,saluted because they have discovered certain truths about particles,light,waves,that correspond with spiritual realities.

Anonymous said...

yoohoo pundek,some mlaysian muslims are by far more brilliant then u jack r's..ada tenggok tak Dr.Zulkifli Othman's acedemic credentials?The first person to do stem cell research is a malay muslim frm Sri lanka..so chootia,what have u discovered?

Anonymous said...

Speaking of jews and Moses,isnt it a fact,it's due to Moses's pleas,Nabi Muhammad had to kurangkan the number of prayers to 5.Moses reason was humanity was not ready for the tremendous impact from THE SUPREME,if people start to pray more!Thank God All Mighty,they were intuive souls who discovered the inner secrets of the quran,and abondended the mimimum 5 kali sehari sembayhang,and converted their ego,hearts,and minds into musliim?Who r they?They are gonstic sufi walis!!

Anonymous said...

oops,solly..it should be gnostic sufi saints

Anonymous said...

Jews still maintain they r the blue eyed aryan super race group on this planet,the rest must be their slaves,where is islam says all is equal before Allah,the Absolute,The Supreme,the Infinite..so how come islam equals to Judaism?islam is very much closer to the vedas and the upanishads,the gita.habis cerita!!

Anonymous said...

And that equality has nothing got to do with morality,lu garu saya punya belakang,say garu lu punya belakang.IT's the divine sight,concentration which sees no separtation at all in the infinite,absolute!!All is the same Self!!

Anonymous said...

Sorry again,Dr.zulkifli Ahmad frm PAS..how many Ph.d's he got aah?

muhammad said...

"The last General Election, ...But if miracle happens and UMNO improves, nobody know which party rakyat will vote for in next election."

UMNO improves- that will indeed be a miracle. The only way they will get people to vote for them is not to improve itself, but by painting a bad picture on its opponents- like what they are doing now.

" I do not give a damn what other people like to call me, kafir or Melayu racist or keling or cina or whatever. I am a rakyat, that is important."

The issue is not what you are called. The issue is what you THINK you are called. If issues such as this raise suspicions of PAS among non-Muslims that easily, I'm worried it won't be a tough task for BN to get back votes in the next election- thru scare tactics.

"There are non-Muslim AS WELL AS MUSLIM who commented that fasting in Ramadhan is unnecessary because it decreases productivity, this type of remarks you can hear from all over the world by non-Muslim and Muslim, ..."

I agree. In fact the remark that I quoted actually came from a MUSLIM, which is even more deplorable.

"Good Muslim should just ignore and forgive such ignorant people (who said such remarks), ... If you have the time, you can explain to guide such people, if you do not have the time, just ignore and forgive such people."

From the looks of it, there are many, many, MANY ignorant people on the Kartika issue, Muslims and non-Muslims alike, rushing to have their say.

I'm reminded of the saying: Of what you don't know, you should not speak.

I've yet to see aggressive reactions to such comments, instead a lot of them seem to be rational arguments, with evidence. One example is Ustaz Zaharuddin's reply to Mahathir's comments. You can find them on zaharuddin.net.

So forgive? Maybe. Ignore? we can't afford it. Especially when it's made by well-known figures.

Tulang Besi said...

August 29, 2009 11:06 AM
Delete
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yoohoo pundek,some mlaysian muslims are by far more brilliant then u jack r's..ada tenggok tak Dr.Zulkifli Othman's acedemic credentials?The first person to do stem cell research is a malay muslim frm Sri lanka..so chootia,what have u discovered?
.

This is how a typical anti-hadeeth sect member talks.

They claim they know the true Islam but their language is testimony that they belong to a satanic sect.

Also, they claim to represent modernity. I fail to see how modernity is present when someone is blind drunk and make a fool out of himself?

Plus, they're cowards too because they don't give their names.

muhammad said...

"About the violent path, it is important to know other people stand on such issue, whether people can debate and exchange different idea/opinion on race, religion, idealogy etc openly and even heatedly without violence."
I think we are capable of that.

You don't think if we agree that Kartika should be caned, we're prone to violence, do you? That's slippery slope thinking.

I find many commenters, who are otherwise educated, resort to slippery slope arguments, generalizations, sweeping statements and hasty, simplistic reasoning when commenting.

Can you give examples where those from PAS enjoyed immnunity from the Shariah Law?

"I am not scared by the Kartika case, I am disgusted by the implementation of the law only on common rakyat."

Then you're only reacting against the implementation, right?. Yup, I wish it included ALL. But the same could be said of the "secular" (which is actually Western) law. Will you say the law regarding corruption should not be implemented because of its selective implementation?

"I think PAS and PKR (and UMNO too) got it all wrong, the Kartika case and the Selangor Beer issue scared Muslim more than scaring non-Muslim as shown by the Permantang Pasir by-election."

I see no evidence for this. Can you show us?

Anyway, I see no reason for anyone to be scared by this law- except the offenders themselves. Non-Muslims, you are excluded. Muslims, why worry if you abstain from alcohol in the first place?

"If there are many factors why PAS was rejected by voters in some of these states even when UMNO is corrupt and munafiq, and PAS strongly doubt that rejection of Shariah Law by voters is one of them, why not PAS find out the reason and improve on PAS weakness instead of focusing again and again on Shariah Law like the beer issue (niat bagus tapi cara tidak betul)?"

That was my opinion.I don't claim to represent PAS. I do agree that PAS should improve.

But this issue DID NOT start as a political issue. PAS was hardly involved. To somehow drag PAS into the issue while conveniently forgetting the lady's pleas itself, is to fall into BN's trap.

You haven't answered my question- Can you tell me what non-Muslims stand to lose from a law that concerns Muslims only?

Tulang Besi said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Some Malaysian Muslims here think they are smarter than Albert Einstein.

And trying to talk about quantum physics to Albert Einstein

Perhaps talking about Islam to Albert Einstein would have been more credible.

It takes all kind of people to make this world move foreward, including some idiots too.
.

I know for a fact that Anti Hadeeth followers are bumbling idiots.

The Quran is in Arabic, yet their Quran is in English.

They can't even get their language right.

Hahahaha

Tulang Besi said...

Delete
Blogger Wong Ka Wai said...

Isu beer oleh Kartika sudah diperjelaskan oleh Zaid Ibrahim

sila layari (http://myzaidibrahim.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/jawapan-saya/)
.

ZAid Ibrahim probably didn't have the time to refer to Akta Mahkamah Syariah.

Anonymous said...

Dear pandai tiga suku Anonymous August 29, 2009 11:06 AM

Your true geniuses like Bohr,Heisenberg are JEWS.

If you think Judasm is stupid, that means Nabi Musa is stupid, Nabi Isa is stupid and most of the Koran is stupid.

Think again and use the full brain before opening your mouth to insult Islam indirectly

Anonymous said...

Remember

Jews and Arabs are genetical cousins of the semitic race.

They are more closely related than Malays to Arabs.

Malays are more closely related to the Chinese and Indians, culturally and before Islam came Malaysia quite lately.

So don't the Malay Muslims insult Jews, because they are insulting the Prophet's "cousins".

Malays are not related by any inch of blood or genes to the Arabs.

Islam does not make you any more Arab.

So stop insulting Jews and Judaism.

The quarrel between Jews and Arabs even during Prophet's time is that Arabs believe the Jews through Jacob hijacked Nabi Ibrahim's legacy of being the chosen one from the Jewish God, which is the same Islamic God, Allah ( as both Muslims and Jews pray to the same God of Nabi Ibrahim or Abraham). Arabs say Nabi Ismail through Hagar, Nabi Ibrahim's former maid, and who became his second wife was the rightful heir to Nabi Ibrahim not Nabi Yaacob.

Remember, the Jews gave the world Islam and Christianity, through their Torah and through their cousins, the Arabs.

You Malay Muslims are only associate members in the Arab-Islamic world.

Anonymous said...

//Remember, the Jews gave the world Islam and Christianity, through their Torah and through their cousins, the Arabs//

Halo,are you drunk or on LSD?My dear,didnt Jesus rebel against the teachings of talmud,and wanted to reform the jewish community?

Anonymous said...

//Your true geniuses like Bohr,Heisenberg are JEWS.//

piraah mangkok bodoh !!..Bohr was a 1/2 jew,heisenberg was a gentile,feynman was a jew but,hey,he was an iconclast,didnt at all believe in religion at all!!Honestly lah go back to tadikalah,u fruit cake jack arse shit!!:-)

Anonymous said...

My goodnes,some pundek jew arse licker desperate to prove that the jews are really something special,when facts tells us the revolution in physics was due to collective works of certain geniuese,jews and gentiles.It all began with planck,then Bohr,then the new kids in the block came,ie heisenberg,Dirac,Shrodinger(who showed deep interest in Vedanta as well as pussies)..later on came the Tomonagas,Feynmann,exploring QED pioneerd by Dirac.

Anonymous said...

//This is how a typical anti-hadeeth sect member talks.

They claim they know the true Islam but their language is testimony that they belong to a satanic sect.

Also, they claim to represent modernity. I fail to see how modernity is present when someone is blind drunk and make a fool out of himself?

Plus, they're cowards too because they don't give their names//

yo bro...whats the matter with yo..too mmcuh fasting has made u sick or what..man,i was trying to defend u buggers,and u ,call people like me belonging to a devil sect..thank you very much..we know,PAS is surviving due to strength from PKR and Anwar,and u sir,can go on and on bla blaing about hadeeth,and this and that(no objection frm me) .What I was trying to show,was,people ,expecially certain non muslim,tend to equate malays and muslim,and islam as a fanatical religion,but cant even get certain thing right,equating buddhism with realitivity,jewish is resposible for the birth of christianity and islam,..hello bro TB,remeber the Quran mentions 124,000 prophets,and not just the semitic ones..And tell u what,being in hell is tousand times better then believing in heaven is only UP..go on believing in your delusions,bro,we know,uour party is weak,ur president is childish,all the time nak bermuzakarah and banning this,haraming that..nak tunjuk Islam tu hebat,but dunno the true greatness of Islam..It's PKR that is proving to be more universal,u fellas r trapped in some time mind warp

Anonymous said...

It's Tok Guru Nik Aziz(and the erdogans) and Anwar who r keeping PAS alive.And at any moment ur hadeeth pakar motivasi specilaist will make his move and boom,down goes Pakatan in Selangor..All the the prayers,fasting cant seem to erase greed, avarice,and pride.Something must be wrong somewhere with u fellas!!

Expat-Melaka said...

And tell u what,being in hell is tousand times better then believing in heaven is only UP..go on believing in your delusions,bro,we know,uour party is weak,ur president is childish,all the time nak bermuzakarah and banning this,haraming that..nak tunjuk Islam tu hebat,but dunno the true greatness of Islam..It's PKR that is proving to be more universal,u fellas r trapped in some time mind warp.

Do you know what is greatness of Islam?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 29, 2009 4:21 PM

Jesus is a Jew. He preached his version of Judaism and later Paul made it into gentile Christianaity.

Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Jacob. David, Solomon which the Jews's cousins, the Arabs, called Isa, Musa, Ibrahim, Yaacob, Daud and Sulaiman, which Malay Muslims claim to be related to the Arabs through Islam, are JEWS.

The Koran mentioned them because the Arabs are cousins to the Jews, and the Koran sought to fight for the rights of Arabs to claim Abraham's legacy through Ishmael or Ismail, which they claimed the Jews hijacked via Jacob.

So, fellow Malay Muslims, be a Malay first and a Muslim second. Because today Malay Muslims are trying to behave like Arab Muslims. Arabs have a reason to push Islam because they dislike their fellow semitic cousin the Jews.

Malays are NO way near the Arabs.

Be a proud Malay first, because you share the same genetic material more with the Indians and the Chinese than with the Arabs.

You can change religion any time but you cannot change your Malay genes, which for most or some of you, already mixed with Indian blood, like Mahathir and Khairy or Badawi with Chinese blood and Khairy's children with Indian and Chinese blood.

Today you can be a Muslim, tomorrow your children can become a Hindu, Buddhist or Christian. But they will always be a Malay.

Islam is a derivative of Judaism, That's fact however much you want to deny or that you never read the history of the development of the Koran back in the 600-700 AD that is, more than 500 year after the time of Nabi Isa ie Jesus Christ and thousand years after the Jew, Moses, who you called Nabi Isa.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous August 29, 2009 4:21 PM

Many of the stories about Nabi Isa, Musa,Ibrahim, Sulaiman, Daud, Yaacob, Miriaam, Ismail, Ishak, all came from the Torah, the holy book of the Jews. Only different is the variation to the stories.

The Torah is thousands of years ahead of the Koran . In fact the Old testament of the Christians are basically the Torah, the five books of Nabi Musa.

These are Jewish prophets, not Arab prophes and later claimed as Islamic prophets.

So don't come here and teach us your version of the history of Islam.

There are more intelligient Muslims than many here talking through their noses, and many more non Muslims who know about Islam than many of you here who can only memorised Arabic words from their Islamic classes. Arabic is not your mother tongue, so don't claim to be clever in Arabic. The natural born Arabs will laugh at your stupidity.

Anonymous said...

Dear Muhammad

You did not get the most important point that is "niat bagus tapi cara tidak betul".

Yes, under existing Government, MACC should be abolished with the selective investigation that is going on now. The religion authority with their selective investigation should be abolished too. So is ISA. Such selective investigation and punishment has become the political tools instead of real implementation of the Law (whatever the Law is). The Law is meaningless to rakyat and actually turnoff rakyat with such selective investigation and punishment. That is why so many voters want change.

What Malaysians stand to lose from Apartheid in South Africa? What Malaysians stand to lose from suffering of people of Palestine in the hand of Israel military? Should Malaysians keep quiet on such issue when Malaysians have nothing to lose?

Implementation of Syariah Law in Malaysia concern all Malaysians although it is for Muslims only.

Most non-Muslims are not afraid of implementation of Shariah Law on Muslims only, but to say that Non-Muslims have nothing to lose is naive, just look around everyday life in Malaysia, every implementation of any policy or law, whether it is non-religion type or religion type by Government has affected the life of every Malaysians. Many Islamic related policies that is NOT Syariah Law also have affected Malaysians life.

If Government today is to put out a policy that Hindu cannot share the same table or canteen which serves beef, well, we have one more segregation in Malaysia.

The vote for PAS from non-Muslims Permantang Pasir by-election is up by almost 7-8% even with all these beer issues, but the vote for PAS from Muslims went down 3-5% even with a tainted UMNO candidate. Who is really scared by these beer issues?

And the beer issue is not just about Kartika, it is more about Selangor beer issue (and Datuk Hasan Ali is from PAS).

NIAT BAGUS, CARA TIDAK BETUL.

Anonymous said...

Tulang Besi

Thank you for allowing such a wide range of views.

Some of the views are downright racist, pure religious bigotry , partisan politics linked to religion and some quite enlightening.

The beauty of western values of human rights and dignity.

Freedom of expression. Allowing debate and willing to agree to disagree without cutting off the head of a poor LEMBU being paraded in public, stomped and spit upon, and the poor lembu is already paying a price for having to sacrific their lives for every hari raya, and every dinner and lunch of muslims and non muslims.

All in the name of Islam by these Malay-Muslims who even do it during Ramadan and after Friday prayers and just after coming out of a mosque.

Islam's Nabi Musa and Nabi Ibrahim are either turning in their graves or having a hard time believing what they had taught to these Malay-muslims parading a head of a cow.

Islam can learn a thing a two about freedom of speech and expression without having a fatwa on those they don't agree.

muhammad said...

"What Malaysians stand to lose from Apartheid in South Africa? What Malaysians stand to lose from suffering of people of Palestine in the hand of Israel military? Should Malaysians keep quiet on such issue when Malaysians have nothing to lose?"

If you're equating Shariah Law with apartheid and the suffering of Palestinian people, I strongly suggest you read up on Shariah Law right now. Find out about the sources, how it's carried out, and the philosophy. Seriously. Right now.

"Implementation of Syariah Law in Malaysia concern all Malaysians although it is for Muslims only.

Most non-Muslims are not afraid of implementation of Shariah Law on Muslims only, but to say that Non-Muslims have nothing to lose is naive, just look around everyday life in Malaysia, every implementation of any policy or law, whether it is non-religion type or religion type by Government has affected the life of every Malaysians. "

If only this were true. I wish more non-Muslims turned up in demonstrations against ISA. I wish there are Malaysians who condemned whipping (strange, under the "secular" context it is ok to prescribe such punishment, but when Islam prescribes it, it's cruel?)

I wish you had answered my question honestly- then I would have no problem admitting my naivety.

"Many Islamic related policies that is NOT Syariah Law also have affected Malaysians life."

Perhaps. In a lot of instances it is more cultural than religious. It's not the shariah itself.

"The vote for PAS from non-Muslims Permantang Pasir by-election is up by almost 7-8% even with all these beer issues, but the vote for PAS from Muslims went down 3-5% even with a tainted UMNO candidate. Who is really scared by these beer issues? "

The statistics may be true, but the cause is still unclear. I'm not convinced that the beer (esp. Kartika) was the reason.

"And the beer issue is not just about Kartika, it is more about Selangor beer issue (and Datuk Hasan Ali is from PAS).

NIAT BAGUS, CARA TIDAK BETUL."

Now I do agree that Hassan Ali could have been more tactful.

muhammad said...

I'm not against freedom of speech, but I do appreciate informed opinions.

For what it's worth, the act with the cow head was despicable and whoever behind it should be ashamed of calling themselves Muslims.

Some information about Shariah Law here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/sharia_2.shtml

And try to get your hands on books about it, for example "Islam and the Destiny of Man" by Gai Eaton.
Please, read, Read, READ!

Anonymous said...

"Rule of Law" in this country must be uphold be it civil or shariah law.

AR said...

Tulang Besi, I empathize with your situation. It looks like you're only trying to stand up for what you believing, and while all due respect I must say I disagree quite a fair bit, it MUST be frustrating to be bombarded with mindless, tactless, childish comments spewing out unnecessary insults.

From where I'm coming from, I personally believe that religion is a more personal matter. But I'll leave that for another day. The point of this was just to point out that all those crass comments from someone who shelters under 'Anonymous' were really unnecessary.

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